by Rocket Kirchner
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Dandelion Salad
Rocket Kirchner (blog)
Rocket Kirchner (youtube channel)
Nov. 22, 2011
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The Occupy Wall Street movement is something I have waited for most of my life. However, the operative question is this: Will it get to the root of the problem that oppresses this country and the world? And, that operative question begs another question: How does one really deal with the deep dark forces that men and women of power wield, and once and for all eradicate those forces?
Those of us who have been around for a while as activists and have done our homework in the study of the present power differentials while seeking to contextualize them into the same differentials in world history know very well that the International Monetary Fund that leaves countries on the hook of insupportable dept, along with the WTO, and the entire banking system at large who own whole governments, will not make any concessions so easily. In fact, they may not make any at all. Let us have no illusions. This is not to discourage the vigilant peaceful front line activity against these leviathan forces. And violence as some have suggested should never be an option to real change.
I think that everyone of us that is involved in this movement must at least take pause for cause and think the unthinkable. That unthinkable is this: There could very well be evil forces behind this entire confederation of banks and their governmental counterparts. I am referring to evil forces that cannot be seen with the naked eye. By this i don’t mean shady back room deals, or far out conspiracies. I mean something far more diabolical. I mean the actual Kingdom of Satan himself who rules this present world.
The Kingdom of who? you might laugh. The Kingdom of … (can’t finish sentence cause you are laughing with such incredulity) … you might snicker. But as you laugh and as you snicker, ask yourself this: what did it take to defeat the most organized oppressive longest Kingdom and Principiate in all of history, namely the Roman Empire? Well you might say, Alaric and the Visigoths in 410 A.D.
No. They just came in and finished the job. The undermining of the Empire in all its oppression began when the early pacifist followers of Jesus proclaimed that he was the real Son of God, not any Caesar. Then it took decade after decade and century after century of nonstop singing martyrs in the arenas until the dark forces became unhinged, and a whole new paradigm of love took over.
Using that historic model of such effectiveness, do you actually think that anything short of that type of authentic spirituality will cause a lasting revolution? Do you think that anything short of peaceful martyrdom will unseat the most powerful Arcangel that was kicked out of heaven? And we are not talking here of some Rosemary’s baby stereotype. This not a metaphor.
There was an account in the Acts of the Apostles where a man walked up to a demon possessed man and said ” i cast you out by the Jesus who Paul preaches”. The demon possessed man replied,” Jesus i know, and Paul i know, but who are you”? Then he began to rip the man to shreds. Any fake spirituality, mumbo jumbo, and superficial public grandstanding on the streets against Wall street, will not have the real power it takes to cast out darkness, and allow the light of Heaven to come in and clean house, and bring social and spiritual inequity to an end. Even though over 80 countries and 150 cities in America have duplicated Occupy Wall Street, until those with sufficient divine authority Occupy Hell itself, you will hear from the greedy and evil 1% what you heard from that demon possessed man, “who are you”? And they will continue to laugh and snicker all the way to the bank.
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Jesus Rebukes the Scribes and Pharisees and Claims to be God
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Alfxbonb2Do
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pastorn8 on Dec 19, 2006
This is the trailer our church (SonRise Church) made for our series about spiritual warfare called “The Invisible War.”
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cbFilmTribe on Oct 17, 2011
An interview from Roger Wolsey, a campus chaplain from Boulder University. You can check out his blog here: http://www.patheos.com/community/mainlineportal/2011/10/14/10-things-christia… The CB Film Tribe is a collective of aspiring media professionals working on the principle that the opposite of war is not peace, but creation. http://www.tallrocksdesign.com/Film%20Tribe/filmtribe.html
Occupy Wall Street #occupyDenver, Christian Perspective
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AVoiceCrying33 on Oct 22, 2011
What Would Jesus do, Would he be for Wall Street or against?
True Christians Unite: A Christian talks about occupy Wall Street
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Part 2
see
Christianity on Dandelion Salad
Occupy Wall Street on Dandelion Salad
Filed under: Christianity, Dandelion Salad Featured Writers, Dandelion Salad Posts News Politics and-or Videos 2, Dandelion Salad Videos, History, Politics, Protests, Religion Tagged: | Activism - Protests - Boycotts, Christianity on Dandelion Salad, Kirchner-Rocket, Occupy Everywhere, Occupy Wall Street, Occupy Wall Street on Dandelion Salad, Rocket Kirchner
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner [...]
it was rome that co-opted and deformed christianity, not the other way round.
you can smell the heretics pagans and witches burning in rocket’s manichean dualistic mouthings…
Peter , first off i am not a Manichean . That is a pre conversion Augustinian view . i stand in the post Augustinian camp that human kind’s best well being does not lie in keeping rules and regualtions ,. or Aristotles golden mean , or the Stoic doctrine of Apathea , but rather ”the grace of God thru Jesus Christ”. also , your ad hominum attack on me does not foster dialogue or debate. it just reveals you to be Christophobic , which is just another cruel and backward prejudice in our society , like Islamophobia and Homophobia . all unacceptable .
As far as cooption . Well , you may have a problem with your statement there. And that problem is the entire ”Decline and fall of the Roman Empire ”by Edward Gibbon . He makes it crystal clear ” the Empire fell becuase of the Christians from within , and the Barbarians from without ”. if you have a problem with this view you may want to take it up with the greatest work on the subject. and if that does not convince you , then read Voltaire and Hume . Hume’s influence on Gibbons masterpeice is known to all historic scholars.
the roman empire fell do to it’s own internal contradictions. that the church was co-opted and deformed by it’s becoming a part of the power structure is beyond doubt…gibbon was part of, and writing as part of, and advising that same power structure,-though at a later date..-not that the church was any great shakes before constantine,… there was an early meeting of church fathers to decide the proper way to enter heaven etc., they decided it was to let one’s self be martyred by the romans..i’m sure that when constantine made his offer ol’ jesus was just scratching his arse and jumping up and down…then there were those love filled pilgrims who came to turtle island…
not that there has not been true religious experience great religious leaders and saints within christianity, but they have appeared in all religious narratives, it’s something about human being…..
Please keep on topic, Peter. Name calling Jesus isn’t cool, either. What do the pilgrims have to do with this article?
See also:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/06/05/exclusive-why-unbelievers-love-christian-hypocrites-by-rocket-kirchner/
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/exclusive-christophobia-is-as-bad-as-homophobia-by-rocket-kirchner/
Peter — first off i am talking about a pre-Constantianin Church . Second of all if you read the writings of the Church fathers called ”the Didache”, you will find that the early Christians were carrying out the Lord’s prayer ” thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven ”. in the process of carrying that out they became the non violent resistance movement by refusing to put Christ in the pantheon and offering incense to Caesar,and refusing to do military service that undermined the empire from within , while the Ostrogoths and Visogoths did it from without .
as far as ”Imperial overstretch ” by Rome , yes …i agree ,. Tacitus warns of the corruption from within by using Germainia as an example of the loyalty that the Romans needed to survive. Gibbon would agree that all of things working together brought down Rome , but maybe Gibbon is just a great historian , or a great historian with a bias toward Christians … but the fact still remains … he blamed them in the end . and his blaming them was if you read the 7 volume set in detail … the early pre-constanianin church in all its rebellion .
the early church understood what the Buddhists call ”the role of the Bodhisattva–one who suffers for another…just like their master did on the cross.
Peter –one more thing . leaning toward Shintoism , you of all people should know the interrelated complexitys between natural forces and spiritual forces. viewing things in that light i do think that there was a spiritual war going on between those early followers of Jesus that claimed that he was King and not Caesar. Their Marytrdom was a natural outcome of that . not a planned event by them .
i will concede that Gibbon had a bias against any dissent against monarchy because he was a Monarchist under the British Empire . maybe that is why in the end he blamed the Christians first and foremost. Gibbon had the same mentality that Marcus Aurelius had toward them . J.S.Mill in his ”On Liberty ” states that Marcus Aurelius martyring the early church was the greatest mistake in free thought in the west . and that and true dissenter must see that.
Please Peter, keep to the topic without name calling. It does not belong here in this discussion area.
“it just reveals you to be Christophobic , which is just another cruel and backward prejudice in our society , like Islamophobia and Homophobia . all unacceptable ”
I’m far more afraid of extremist Christians than I am of gays(not at all afraid of gays by the way). Also more so than Islams, but that’s only because I live in the US, and we are spending trillions of dollars and waging wars for profit to protect me from those extremists. Religious extremists are frightening…including “evangelical Christians” or dominionists…whatever you choose…..You are obviously well read, and well educated, but that doesn’t exempt you from the dope and intoxication of ideology….you are not as smart as you think you are. I am Chistianophobic, not Christophobic and you conveniently label.
Here’s a good reference, ms in theology from harvard, son of a minister, graduate of seminary, writer for Christian Science Monitor for many years….Hhe knows a Christian Fascist when he sees one.
American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War On America
Hi Matt, thanks for commenting. I don’t believe Rocket mentioned how “smart” he is. Keep the comments on the topic not attacking the writer, please.
Rocket knows Hedges’ work and read his book and even wrote a book review on it. See: http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/hedges-i-dont-believe-in-atheists-review-by-rocket-kirchner/
Evangelicals are not necessarily fundamentalists. Did you watch the last 2 videos on this post? He goes into this there.
See Rocket’s piece: http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/14/exclusive-christophobia-is-as-bad-as-homophobia-by-rocket-kirchner/
More by or with Hedges on Christian Fascism:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/03/29/is-america-yearning-for-fascism-by-chris-hedges/
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/20/american-crusaders-the-rise-of-christian-nationalism-in-post-911-america/
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/07/the-christian-fascists-are-growing-stronger-by-chris-hedges/
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/07/10/i-dont-believe-in-atheists-by-chris-hedges-2007/
Matt , well … first off i never called you Christophobic . I was responding to Peter’s ad hominum on me . it was totally uncalled for . Usually what happens when someone finds out that i am a Christian , they attack me . I perform in bars , secular music for a living …am a committed anti-war activists. but makes no difference to most people . they are just plain prejudice . they have their reasons . i empathize. ..but i will call them on their pre-judging me , or for that matter pre-judging anyone for anything , because any kind of prejudice against a human being on anything is unacceptable .
terms like ”towel heads ”( used for Muslims ) ”kikes” (used for Jews )
”queers” used for gays , ”Jesus freaks ” used for Christians , etc. etc… i don’t think should be in a society that seeks to be civilized and uses open inquiry for dialogue and debate. all humans should be shown dignity regardless of race ,sex , creed ,or color . anything less is shameful . you may disagree with this . but if you do it is just a bias on your part is it not ?
First you want me to believe in a benevolent creator that no one ever saw, and now you want me to believe he created the devil to thwart his benevolence.
Does that make sense to you?
Jim , it matters not to me what you personally believe. That is your own personal business , not mine . It does matter to me to pesent a dissenting view to the prevailing thought of the day , and hopefully challenge freethinking to freely think.Theology is very very complex. though the things you brought up are valid .
1, in regards to the benevolent creator that no one saw. that is just the claims that we christians are making about jesus..that he is the benevolent creator that became human and died and rose for us out his great love . for as the Apostle Peter said ” we do not follow fables , but are EYEWITNESSES of His majesty ”.
2. in regards to your second point : the devil was not created to thwart God’s benevolence . all beings were created to love. be they humans , angels , Arc angels , etc. Lucifer chose to rebel . free will must be factored into any form of coherent philosophy . since theology and philosphy are intertwined thru history it is tuff to dismiss free will as the Calvinists do . if we do not have free will than that means we are created like robots who cant love , or we are forced to love. that makes no sense. if we take a secular view of the same issue , we run into B.f. skinner’s work ”beyond freedom and dignity ”were he out and out denys free will . again this view becomes problematic in so many ways , least of the fact that humans are accountable for their actions if their is such a thing as universal conscience.
Jesus was a teacher, or maybe a magician, or illusionist.
His sermon on the mount is without a doubt something to be admired and a model for men to live by. However the demands of those words seems to be against the very nature of mankind.
Jim , magic assumes a ”self initiated ”activity brought about the power of the will . were as Christ said ” i do nothing apart from my Father in heaven ”.
an illusionist? one who claims to be the Truth is not coming to deceive with illusions .
in regards to the sermon on the mount –being against the nature of mankind as you say . i think for the first time we agree. that is why one must be re-born to truly practice it . rabbinic Judaism accepts human nature as it is . but the messianic Judaism of Jesus seeks to transform it . what it would look like after it starts it transformation [process is the sermon on the mount lived out in process. that is why Christ said in the gospel of Thomas ”the kingdom of heaven is within you ”.
i really honestly don’t think that anything short of that is gonna change things for good . maybe for a while , but for good ? you are an intelligent man and you know the history of revolutions . it is just power changing hands. in vicor hugo’s masterpiece ”les miserable ” we see a interior revolution going on in the main character while there is an exterior revolution going on in France. what i am saying is that we need the revolution within the revolution in order to really effect change. hence , we need to occupy hell within and without us .
[...] Occupy Hell by Rocket Kirchner
Well Rocket, How long did the new paradigm of love that took over last, and when was the last time you saw a Christian ?
Jim , i am a christian . been one for 37 years. i work in a community of other christians that feed the homeless and the destitute , visit prisons , you name it . I understand how the Roman Empire morphed into other Empires in the Euroworld ., all the way down to the Amercian Empire. i understand also how much of the good news of christ was coopted by evil forces. however , i still contend that the world would be a far worse place had not christ came and had not the early church prevailed in its steadfastness against evil . that is what the occupy wall street movement has to do if it is to be really effective.
apply the model of the early church to occupy wall st. and you have a win win .
Very interesting point of view Kirchner.
Burn the witches!
I never considered myself particularly spiritual but when the pure evilness of the current world order dawned upon me, I asked myself the same question. (“Are you there, Satan?”).
I then read “Columbus and Other Cannibals: The Wetiko Disease of Exploitation, Imperialism, and Terrorism” and things became somewhat clearer.
Lisa , todays evil is the same evil behind Columbus and other explorers …so true .
in the movie ” The Usual Suspects” the kevin spacey character at the end says ” what the devil’s goal is to convince you that he does not exist , and then poof ..he’s gone ”. so true .