Throwing the Baby Out with the Bath Water by PeaceLoveVegan (Kucinich; Paul)

Dandelion Salad

posted with permission from:

PeaceLoveVegan

PeaceLoveVegan’s blog post

Thursday, November 29, 2007

In the last 24 hours, there has been a flurry of bulletins circulating from disgruntled former Dennis Kucinich supporters. They are all in a tizzy! Why? Because when questioned, presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich suggested that he might consider Ron Paul as a running mate. Bear in mind that this is such a highly unlikely scenario one has to wonder why he would say that. Given the fact that these two candidates reside on opposite sides of the spectrum on most issues, they are not in the same political party, and Ron Paul is not even remotely interested in entertaining such an idea, the question remains, “Why would Dennis Kucinich say such a thing?”

I certainly can’t speak for him, but I am definitely not going to change my opinion of him because he said it. One possibility is that perhaps he was merely attempting to poignantly illustrate how miserably most Democratic leaders have failed the American people, to the degree that he would sooner consider a candidate from the opposing party, who on most issues, is his polar opposite as his running mate, than most any other Democrat in office. If his statement really disturbs you that much, then send the guy an email, and ask him why he said it!

But no—these unhappy folks, who until this moment, considered themselves die-hard Kucitizens, would rather just throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water. They still believe in everything Dennis stands for, but they insist: “For him to even consider Ron Paul as a viable running mate, makes him unfit to lead the country!” Talk about overreacting!

Have these people even noticed that Dennis Kucinich is one of only six House members and one of only three Democratic House members to have voted against the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007? (Do they even know what that is?) Have they forgotten that Dennis is the only member of the House to have voted against the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act?

Dennis is still the only Democratic presidential candidate who is committed to creating universal, single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare for all Americans, a Department of Peace and non-violence, marriage equality, and a green economy. He’s still the only candidate completely committed to ending our dependence on foreign oil and developing non-nuclear sustainable energy. He’s still the only candidate who will do away with NAFTA, the WTO, and the Patriot Act. While other candidates have said they cannot commit to getting us out of Iraq by 2013, he’s still the only candidate who is not only committed to getting us out of Iraq NOW, but he has a 12-point plan to make that happen. He’s still the only candidate who voted against the war and against every subsequent refunding of the war 100% of the time. He’s still the only candidate with a 100% positive voting record on animal rights and environmental issues. He’s still the only candidate with the courage to introduce articles of impeachment against anyone in this corrupt administration. And he’s still the only candidate who has never taken a single penny in special interest or corporate contributions, which means he can’t be bought. He’s the one candidate who will truly be representing the people.

I’ll admit that the first time I heard about this whole Ron Paul thing (actually, I heard Elizabeth say it in an interview last week), I was momentarily horrified. But then I took a few moments to think through what it all meant, and what I realized was that this changes absolutely nothing!

If you’re looking for perfection in a presidential candidate, you’ll not find it anywhere. If you’re looking for a candidate who will always say what you want to hear, and never say what you don’t want to hear, then you’re likely to find one who can’t be trusted. But if you’re looking for a presidential candidate who embodies the ideals of peace, prosperity, and equality, who will restore our freedoms and honor human rights all over the world, who will replace bad trade policies with fair trade agreements that will bring jobs back to Americans, honor workers’ rights, and protect the environment, who will allow women the dignity to choose what they can do with their own bodies without government interference, and who will lead this country with unparalleled compassion, courage, and integrity, then Dennis Kucinich is still your candidate.

see

Kucinich/Paul Ticket: A Fatal Error by KatherineHollyday

On The Issues: Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul by Lo

Kucinich considers GOP Ron Paul as his running mate by Sabrina Eaton (audio)

After the Rep Debate: Don’t Ask Don’t Tell + Ron Paul VP Question (videos)

Kucinich suggests a Republican running mate by Sabrina Eaton & Stephen Koff

Ron Paul asked about Dennis Kucinich as a running mate (video)

Dec. 15th Kucinich Money Bomb: Pay It Forward (video)

Vote in 2nd Round of Presidential Idol Poll

Putting Peace First by Kevin Zeese (Kucinich; Paul)

26 thoughts on “Throwing the Baby Out with the Bath Water by PeaceLoveVegan (Kucinich; Paul)

  1. Pingback: Why The Left Must Reject Ron Paul by Sherry Wolf « Dandelion Salad

  2. What bothers me about the whole issue is the lack of response from Dennis to our questions of why he would consider Ron Paul. He has removed any comments on his myspace page that question him on it. He has not returned anyone’ s messages that I know of regarding the issue. Apparently he feels our support isn’t that important to him or he doesn’t need it. More than likely he just wasn’t aware of the criticism Mr. Paul received from a lot of Kucinich supporters.

    Perhaps he has an explanation that he can walk us through that would help us understand where is coming from. But perhaps as Asher mentioned above, he thinks anyone opposed is just ignorant. Asher do you really think Dennis wants you to call us ignorant… HAHA!! You do sound like a Ron Paul supporter.

  3. See:
    Kucinich considers GOP Ron Paul as his running mate by Sabrina Eaton (audio)

    After the Rep Debate: Don’t Ask Don’t Tell + Ron Paul VP Question (videos)

    Kucinich suggests a Republican running mate by Sabrina Eaton & Stephen Koff

    Ron Paul asked about Dennis Kucinich as a running mate (video)

    If you are a Kucinich supporter, would like Dennis to be president and would rather not risk having Ron Paul as president if Dennis should win and then something happened to him, please consider contacting Dennis’ campaign and letting them know how you feel.

    Phone 877-413-3664

    email: 

    info@dennis4president.com

    Dennis 4 President

  4. Lo,

    Yes I certainly have read about the other Republican candidates and, again, Ron Paul is among the worst of them, however, there is not currently even one Republican running I would even dream of supporting. I guess I’m not sure why I’m required to have one? Hmm?

    I invite people to visit my blog entry entitled “wRONg PAUL. Why I do NOT want Ron Paul to be my president” here: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=95719942&blogID=304002778

    It is a very lengthy entry filled with Ron Paul in his own words, videos and observations of others (including a good observation from a Ron Paul supporter himself) which I have gathered over the past few months. I hope you will all give it a try. Here is my own satirical rant on some of the things I’ve learned about Ron Paul and his agenda:

    I’ve seen the light! Ron Paul wants FREEDOM!!

    FREEDOM to die from a disease which we could have found the cure for if we’d had funding for stem cell research!

    FREEDOM from privacy in medical decisions between myself and my doctor!

    FREEDOM to work long hours in unsafe conditions without proper benefits and pay, because all worker’s rights regulations would be removed!

    FREEDOM from having to mind my own business about who my neighbor chooses to marry!

    FREEDOM from an educated population capable of critical thinking skills because I’d be FREE from public schools! If he can’t completely FREE us from an education, he’ll make sure we have the FREEDOM to BREAK THROUGH that wall that separates church from state by being FREE from having to make the choice whether or not we want to pray in school! We’ll all HAVE to! FREEDOM!!

    FREEDOM to have inadequate access to healthcare!

    FREEDOM from having employers who are not able to hire people based on race, religion, or sexual orientation rather than merit!

    FREEDOM from those pesky regulations that protect our environment!

    FREEDOM to drink and eat things that could be poisoning my body because the corporations will no longer have to clean up after themselves or tell us they are poisoning us! WOOT! No more restrictions on corporations at all! YEAH!

    FREEDOM from laws that protect our citizenry from dangerous guns and irresponsible gun owners!

    FREEDOM from cultural and spiritual growth the National Endowment of the Arts provides our citizenry!

    FREEDOM from all safety nets including Social Security and social programs that help our nation‘s poor and underprivileged!

    FREEDOM from “Network Neutrality“!

    FREEDOM from Family Planning programs which help empower men and women to avoid getting pregnant in the first place if they don’t want to! It was proven during the Clinton years that such programs helped REDUCE the abortion rate, but who cares about that? FREEDOM!!!

    FREEDOM from Amber alerts!

    FREEDOM from funding alternative energy sources that would decrease our dependence on foreign oil!!

    FREEDOM from holding our politicians accountable for REAL crimes like lying us into an illegal, immoral occupation of a sovereign nation that did not attack us! I mean who really cares about the constitution right? It’s just a Goddamn piece of paper after all. FREEDOM!!

    FREEDOM to be considered a terrorist by my government for disagreeing with it or questioning 9/11! Ron Paul didn’t even bother to vote on the legislation that could have stopped this (HR 1955)! Good for him! FREEDOM…?

    WOW!! Let FREEDOM ring.

  5. Pingback: On The Issues: Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul by Lo « Dandelion Salad

  6. Pingback: easyVegan.info » Blog Archive » Dennis Kucinich’s Animal Rights Roundtable / “Dialogue of Democracy”

  7. You’re all praising Dennis’ policies. I do as well. Dennis wants not-for-profit universal healthcare for all our citizens. Did you know Ron Paul wants us to remain the only industrialized nation in the world that does not offer healthcare for it’s citizens? Americans are literally DYING for healthcare and Ron Paul would do nothing to relieve this problem. So, why aren’t you noticing that if Dennis were to choose Ron Paul as a running mate, none of the things you support Dennis for today would be supported by Ron Paul if he needed to step in for Dennis should something happen to Dennis?

    Please read Ron Paul’s voting record. Listen to his speeches on youtube where he talks about how he wants to over turn Roe V Wade. Should it be up to the states if a woman has a right to vote? Of course not. Then it should sound just as idiotic to leave it up to the states whether or not a woman has a right to privacy in decisions made between herself and her doctor.

    Ron Paul doesn’t NEED to be “bought” by corporations. Ron Paul consistently votes in FAVOR of corporatins and big business to the detriment of we the people. So, again, he doesn’t NEED to be a “bought” candidate as he is doing what the corporations want him to AT NO CHARGE!

    This isn’t over by any means. The last I’ve heard Dennis speak about this was a couple nights ago where he said “Well, Ron Paul isn’t interested anyway.” It turns out this isn’t exactly true, because the next night, Ron Paul was asked about this after the Rep debates and he sounded as though he were not completely closed to the idea.

    If you want the kind of America Dennis wants, please contact Dennis’ campaign (as I have several times this week) and ask Dennis to tell us he won’t choose Ron Paul. I personally want to hear him apologize for even toying with the idea of leaving someone who does not want the things he wants in charge of our country should something happen to him. here is the phone number for the campaign: 877-413-3664.

    Please, also read and consider this piece, also blogged by Lo, with regards to this topic: https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/kucinichpaul-ticket-a-fatal-error-by-katherinehollyday/

    Thank you.

  8. BW and Koy, yes, I’ve read Ron Paul’s voting record and his platform for his campaign.

    Koy, have you seen and heard the other Republican candidates? Talk about scary!

    At least I agree with Paul on some issues.

    I stand committed to supporting Dennis Kucinich.

  9. Have you read Ron Paul’s overall voting record and past, Lo? I have, and it is my firm view Ron Paul is not only NOT the best Republican candidate, but he might be up there with the absolute worst.

    Who will I support? I will be looking at third party candidates or course.

  10. I have to wonder how much you actually know about Ron Paul? You seem to think Dennis Kucinich is the only one who has committed to take the troops out of Iraq now, end the Patriot Act, end the WTO, end NAFTA. Actually Ron Paul supports all those positions also. Please do a little more research next time.

    Regardless of what current Kucinich backers or the Ron Paul campaign feel about his statements, I have gained much more respect for Kucinich. I am seriously considering doing some grassroots volunteer work for Kucinich, in addition to the work I already do for Ron Paul.

    I believe when Kucinich said that the ticket would represent a necessary balancing of the countries energies, I became a potential Kucinich voter. Even though I am a vegetarian and an environmentalist who engages in some animal rights activism, I had fallen into the propaganda against Kucinich that he is Communistic, without giving him as much investigation as he deserved. His knowledge that the country needs not only order, laws, and regulations, but also healthy amounts of freedom and self determination, proves his wisdom.

  11. Pingback: Neoliberalism: The economic model: origins, theory, definition (2005) « Dandelion Salad

  12. Pingback: Kucinich Calls For Investigation Into Delay Of Veterans’ Benefits « Dandelion Salad

  13. Pingback: Kucinich/Paul Ticket: A Fatal Error by KatherineHollyday « Dandelion Salad

  14. Thank you Vegiegail I much appreciate your blog. Your point that Dennis “may be attempting to poignantly illustrate how miserably most Democratic leaders have failed the American people to the degree that he would “consider” a candidate from the other party is awesome.
    To throw him out with the bath water as you write is also in line with Marianne Williamson’s blog on “Politics and The Thought Police”. The thought police must be notifed because our candidate is once again “considering” something unique!

    Well thank goodness we have a candidate who thinks.
    Dennis Kucinich is not a factory molded, knee jerk , rhetoric (that changes with the wind ) spouting, brand of candidate. No actually Dennis is a rare public servant (in the true sense of the phrase) who distinquishes himself from the other candiates because he demonstrates the ability to think progressively. He uses his superb intellect to “consider” new ways of looking at old problems.
    He is a fearless original. He is an awakener. Has any other politicial ever “considered” such an idea? If so, he or she would have been a free thinker. You know those kind of blinder free individuals, often ahead of their time, who come up with the inventive new approaches to problems that forever change and benefit humanity.
    The Department of Peace – look at that idea! How wonderful is that? And how much has it united us as supporters?

    Well Dennis Kucinich dared to not only “consider” an “unthinkable” thought that had people reacting with horror- he and Elizabeth were not afraid to verbalize it to the world. And what are consequences we have seen? Well for one thing they jolted us all into thinking new thoughts, considering new ideas, and re-thinking the old status quo. Wow – they gave us some fresh air, some extra oxygen for our brain cells.
    Let us thank him once again for the privledge of supporting a candidate of his caliber. He thinks, he reads, ( his classic answer to the question of why he voted to oppose the Patriot Act -‘”because I read it!”),
    he considers, and we are the better for it.

    Bonnie

  15. Pingback: Kucinich at the DNC Fall Meeting (video link) « Dandelion Salad

  16. Oh and one more thing;
    it would be a great way to quell the bipartisanship, and democracy could looklike more like a
    “People’s Party”
    instead of this Elephant humping a Donkey
    that we have NOW
    9/11=PNAC Plot

    “Remember NIXON Never thought he’d get caught either ”
    ( You can Quote me )

  17. HaHa Ha,
    VegiGail,
    you sneeker;……Throwing the bay Out with the Bathwater, and Ron Paul, are quotes from my piece;
    “Ron Paul Is a Fake ”
    But I believe I already gave you permission to use that;
    also the one about,
    ” Sure Government is screwed up; but it needs to be fixed like an old car,
    NOT sent to China as scrap metal ”

    which I kinda think seguees in to Dennis’s comment about :- “….digging a Hole to get to China, WE’RE THERE !! ”

    But skimming back to the issue, from the outside, looking in, I just realized that the diffusion of the line between the two has been enhanced by this faux pas double entendre sleight of word, and the Paul supporters are now scratching their heads saying Ron WHO ??
    while Dennis shines…………..
    AHHHhhhhhhhhhh, Ahm Luvin’ it !
    xx
    kiss kiss
    Radical Priest

  18. Pingback: Ground Hounds: You Tube Debates (Ron Paul-O-Rama) (video) « Dandelion Salad

  19. I said this on the Action Forum threads too: if you are going to leave Dennis’ campaign (say it ain’t so), then honestly, where are you planning to go next?! If this is all it takes for people to give up on Dennis, then the fascists have won! I resonate with the Green Party, but I’m not leaving Dennis’ campaign until the man is in the White House, and that’s when the real work begins, folks.

    Our planet is in crisis right now – climate change, topsoil depletion, biodiversity loss, pollution of air, land, and water. We ALL depend on the planet to survive – even Republicans. 🙂 Dennis is the only candidate who will go all the way for the best interests of the people and the planet, and you know it. We need him, and he needs all of us to help make it happen.

    If you give up on Dennis, but really truly believed in what his campaign stood for and still stands for, then you are giving up on the planet! Unless you have come up with a better plan than supporting Dennis. If so, please share!

    Forget the running mate. Forget the divisive, human-centered issues. Forget who ever told you that Kucinich is perfect. He’s not! Forget the idea that all people can be conveniently understood by labeling them as either Republican or Democrat. They can’t! Life is shades of gray. Humans are complex beings. Ron Paul is a person more than a “Republican” – whatever that is supposed to mean. These stupid labels were created to DIVIDE AND FOOL people.

    Dennis is in such a class of his own, perhaps finding him ANY suitable mate (besides Elizabeth) of his caliber and integrity to join him in the White House is going to be a difficult task. None of the other “Democratic” candidates are up to par, that’s for sure.

    So Dennis may have hurt your feelings, may have put your trust in him into question. Without wanting to sound insensitive, please get over it. The planet is counting on all of us – to take positive action on a scale the likes of which humanity has never seen before. Dennis is part of that sea change. In 100 years, no one will care if he said some comment or two about Ron Paul. Come on!

    http://www.december152007.com

  20. These reactionary bunches who want to throw Dennis out of consideration because he is considering Ron Paul are IGNORANT.

    I’ll say it– They probably don’t even know what Ron Paul’s voting record is!!

    If they compared Ron Paul with Dennis Kucinich, they’d see their voting records are nearly identical!

  21. I am not looking for a perfect president, but I AM looking for one who has good judgement. Dennis even toying with the idea of choosing a Vice President with Ron Paul’s voting record and past is absolutely unacceptable and here’s why: Let’s just say Dennis DOES win the presidency and Ron Paul is VP. Do you all remember what a VP is for? The purpose of a VP is so that there will be someone to replace the P if he were to die or become incapacitated. If you’ve read Ron Paul’s voting record and history, you will know that Ron Paul wouldn’t even DREAM of moving forward with any of the ideas Dennis would have been elected for if RP were to take over the presidency.

    Dennis saying “Well, Ron Paul isn’t interested anyway” IS NOT AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, “Why would you do such a thing to your base, Mr. Kucinich?”

    My loyalty does not lie in any candidate. If the candidate is wrong, then he’s wrong, and Dennis is wrong. He’s made a terrible mistake and I don’t honestly know what he could say or do to regain my trust in him. I thank him for the things he has tried to do for our country, and will continue to support those efforts, but I can not support his bid for the presidency at this time.

  22. From a message from Asher (December 15 2007.com):

    quote:

    “There was a rumor floating around that Kucinich was thinking about Ron Paul being his running mate.

    Well, it’s been confirmed, that he is considering Ron Paul.

    Well, guess what??!?

    I’m glad he’s thinking about Ron Paul.

    But you know what? Ron Paul is thinking about Dennis Kucinich as well.

    Me, I actually care about the Constitution and individual rights above all other issues.

    You don’t have a right to protest unless you have them.

    You can’t get anything done, or even oppose government policy if they make protesting illegal.

    I would rather protest against Ron Paul and have the right to do so than protest against Hillary or Romney and be sent to Guantanamo for it.

    You know what? I’m GLAD that he’s considering Ron Paul.

    If you can’t see how we are in danger of slipping into fascism right now … then I really don’t know how you could be so short-sighted.

    If you live under tyranny, who cares if you have universal health care?

    If you don’t have Free Speech or a right to assemble, or a right to freedom from unwarranted search or seizure, then who cares about social spending?”

Comments are closed.