Israel’s own Holocaust (and the US’s, and ours) by William Bowles

By William Bowles
featured writer
Dandelion Salad
Creative-i
6 January 2009

Sitting here, relatively comfortable in freezing London, I have spent the last six hours, virtually non-stop, going through the news reports coming out of the Gaza Strip and publishing what I hope brings home the horrors of Israel’s own Holocaust.

Reflexively, I access the latest BBC report and I note that at last they are realizing that blanket approval for Israel/US genocide just won’t do. But is it enough to report the humanitarian catastrophe that is the relentless, remorseless onslaught? After all Israel’s lockdown of the Gaza Strip has been a humanitarian catastrophe for the last year.

Well I suppose I should be thankful for small mercies, but I won’t. The BBC now insists that “at least 25% of the casualties are civilians” (having added the “at least” since an earlier report) when it is clear from eyewitnesses including an interview on BBC TV News that the great majority are civilians ( see ‘Inside Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital’).

In a BBC report titled ‘Gaza conflict: Who is a civilian?’ we read,

“As the death toll mounts in Gaza, the thorny question is arising of who and what can be considered a legitimate military target in a territory effectively governed by a group that many in the international community consider a terrorist organisation.”

So for the BBC it’s merely a “thorny question”, but I hazard not for the hundreds slaughtered with US-supplied weapons and an invasion condoned by the West.

The same report continues,

“But when an Israeli military spokesman also says things like “anything affiliated with Hamas is a legitimate target,” things get complicated.”

So it’s not only a “thorny question” but also a “complicated one.” How complicated can slaughtering men, women and children get, I wonder?

But clearly someone, somewhere in the BBC hierarchy is getting nervous.

It continues,

“The first wave of bombings, which targeted police stations across Gaza, is a key case in question – particularly the strike that killed at least 40 trainees on parade.

“Analysts say Hamas policemen are responsible for quashing dissent and rooting out spies, as well as tackling crime and directing traffic.”

“Analysts”? Which analysts? No doubt Israeli ‘analysts’, but the very fact the BBC fails to identify these ‘analysts’ reveals the slimy and dissembling nature of the BBC’s ‘reporting’. And, as if to rub salt into the wound, the very same report tells us that,

“…the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, which has raised the issue in a letter to Israel’s attorney general, says it appears those killed were being trained in first aid, human rights and maintaining public order.”

The Holocaust that is Israel’s is just as much a war conducted through the media (see ‘The Jerusalem Post explains why Israel has gotten such ‘good’ media coverage’) as it is with the Zionist version of Dante’s Inferno (see ‘It’s like Dante’s Inferno, a doctor describes Gaza horror’) which is why tackling the propaganda war conducted by the BBC on behalf of the Israeli state, is so important to expose.

The BBC ‘report’ continues,

“The difference in numbers in the Gaza war is stark – Palestinians say more than 500 Gazans have died in eight days, compared with 18 Israelis from rocket fire since 2001.

“But experts say issues ranging from the parties’ intentions, the reasons for going to war, the actions taken to protect – or indeed expose – civilians, and the conditions on the ground, all feed into a much more complicated legal equation.”

But it’s not Palestinians who say that over 500 have died, it’s all manner of organizations including the UN.

And yet again slaughter is reduced by the BBC to yet another anodyne and let’s face it, evasive comment, that it’s a “complicated legal question”! How many people have to die before it gets to be simple?

Also missing from the BBC’s “complicated” and “thorny” questions is the issue of the kinds of weapons being used including cluster bombs, depleted uranium and a new and even more barbaric weapon, the DIME,

“The Israelis are using a new type of very high explosive weapons which are called Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) and are made out of a tungsten alloy. These weapons have an enormous power to explode.” — ‘Horrific Unconventional Weapons used against The People of Gaza – Interview with Dr. Mads Gilbert By Akram al-Sattari’ By Akram al-Sattari.

This interview must be read for it reveals the true nature of Israel’s ‘war on Hamas’ and ironically, Dr. Gilbert is the subject of the BBC video referred to above, though no mention of weapons that slice limbs off people and that allegedly contain depleted uranium.

“[T]hese weapons will have a cancer effect on those who survive. They will develop cancer we suspect.”

“All that is happening in Gaza here now is against international law, it is against humanity.

“Almost all of the patients we have received have these severe amputations. They seem to have been affected by this kind of weapon. Of course, we have many fragment injuries and burns but those who have got their limbs cut off, constitutes quite a large proportion.”

For it is simple, the Palestinians have been made the sacrificial lambs of the imperial lust for land and power and the BBC (and not just the BBC but virtually the entire Western media) is a willing, indeed complicit participant in disguising what is undoubtedly a war crime of horrific dimensions by masking over the actions of a criminal and terrorist state with slick and meaningless words that disguise the barbarity of Israel’s actions behind all manner of legalese and prevarication.

see

More children among Gaza dead + Israels ground offensive in full swing

Israel rains fire on Gaza with phosphorus shells

US Blocks UN Security Council Vote Calling for Immediate Ceasefire in Gaza

Israeli troops invade Gaza

The obscenity that is the state of Israel by William Bowles

Israel-Palestine-Gaza-Occupation

69 thoughts on “Israel’s own Holocaust (and the US’s, and ours) by William Bowles

  1. jULIUS– did you watch ALL the 3rd party debates ?

    natureboy — when i used the word ”deadly” , it was in the context of the cult of One -selfishness. the way to be liberated from that cult of self in the here and now is for Christ to liberate each individual .

    Jesus said ”the kingdom of heaven does not come with signs to be observed , but it is within you”.
    i am referring to an inner change . on earth as it is in heaven . On earth ! NOW .

  2. “Obviously you didn’t follow this past election cycle.”

    Presumptuous aren’t you, I followed the last election very closely, watched all the debates and I VOTED!

    I really didn’t think that John McCain was a good selection because I thought he was to old slow at making decisions but I voted for him because I thought that Mr. Obama was anti American. Mr Obama is now our president and I’ve got to respect that and give him a chance, so far I don’t like what he is doing.

    “I really don’t want to continue replying to you, Julias, it’s not worth my time. Sorry.”

    Sorry or not, no skin off my chin, reply or not, that’s up to you, the world wont end because you don’t reply.

    Julias

  3. Name calling? Sorry I didn’t know So-Damm-Insane was your hero.

    Did I say that Violence was right? Sometimes if attacked it is necessary, right or wrong.

    I never tried to run for office so I don’t know anything about how difficult it is, I do know that I saw some wackos run for office. Have you ran for office in other countries, try it and than tell me about it.

    Julias

    • “wackos” is name calling.

      Obviously you didn’t follow this past election cycle.

      Not calling someone a name does not make them a hero.

      I really don’t want to continue replying to you, Julias, it’s not worth my time. Sorry.

  4. Yes the Shah of Iran and So-Damm-Insane of Iraq were placed in power by the United States and for the same reason.

    1. To have and influence and presences in the region.
    2. For the oil in the region.

    So-Damm-Insane turned against the US and was a murderer Check out

    http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p122/cptvidoe/

    I’m sure you have a car or that you need to warm your home, right or wrong it was done, if people don’t like it they can vote.

    Julias

    • What is it with the name calling?

      And I repeat:

      Two wrongs don’t make a right.” Violence is always wrong no matter who the perpetrator.

      Vote? Sorry, we don’t have free elections in the US. The Third Parties were excluded entirely. We are given a choice between a center-left Capitalist Party and a rightwing Capitalist Party, no other parties are viable without being included in the televised debates. Look at the difficulty in getting on the ballot if one is a Third Party candidate.

  5. Julius, everyone always trots out Romans 13. have you ever read mark nanos ” the mystery of romans ”. he is a jewish scholar who really understand s and clears up once and for all that Romans 13 was not written about secular authoritys but rather relgiuos authoritys .

    that is why paul took the lash from the synagogues . because he was in submission to them . he was urging the gentiles christians in rome to do the same . Paul did not all of a sudden just up and change the subject in romans ch13. he was going in the flow of the jewish -gentile -GOD triangle , and 13 was jsut part of that. check this book out at the library . it builds a strong case.

  6. You guys are starting are starting to sound like politicians with all your $5000.00 words and I’m unable to keep up. I’m not impressed, it’s that kind of talk that starts wars and leads to misunderstandings and frustration.

    Sura [47:4] If you encounter (in war) those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks. If you take them as captives you may set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. Had GOD willed, He could have granted you victory, without war. But He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of GOD, He will never put their sacrifice to waste.

    “O Prophet! Strive hard (lit., make “jihad”) against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be adamant with them… ” (66:73).

    [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

    “Slay the pagans wherever you may come upon them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and lie in wait for them at every conceivable place…” (9:5).

    Allah Ordering Muslims to Kill Infidels
    Reader comment on article: “Death to America”
    Submitted by A. Ahmed (United States), Sep 10, 2002 at 15:19

    Two Quranic ayas read as follows:
    9.014 “Fight them (infidels) and Allah will punish them by your (muslims) hands”

    9.052 “”Allah will afflict you (infidels) with punishment from himself (Allah) or by our(muslims) hands”. A muslim website used these verses to incite muslims that it is divine order from Allah for them to kill infidels (for details about this article and analysis please go to Dr. Ali Sina website “faithfreedom.org”). Needless to say that pious believing muslims act on the above commandement , or at least cheer them when some one acts on it. How long the world will continue to believe the islamic apologists line that Islam is peaceful and islam means peace. May be what they mean is Islam means pieces of indfidel body parts on the streets.

    Dr. Ali Sina

    I’ll keep it simple so that EVERY ONE CAN UNDERSTAND!

    War and killing has been with mankind since the begging of man, even Moses had blood on his hands before he discovered that he was a Hebrew. And yet God commanded Moses to lead the Hebrew people out of Egypt, but Moses could not go into the Promised Land. The assumption of modern man is that government is our idea, and we were mighty smart to think it up. The Bible begs to differ. Scripture’s perspective is that government was God’s idea and He is the one who put it in place (Romans 13:1-7). The Bible also teaches that legitimate part of government is the use of the sword. Isn’t it obvious that force may be necessary to protect the peace and security of law-abiding citizens? Since when can we count on bad guys to play by the rules?

    Augustine wrote that “the authority and deliberation of war be under the control of a leader.” Augustine would have thought of a king, today we think of elected leadership. Individual citizens are not authorized to “take the sword into their own hand.” However, legitimate governments hold a degree of responsibility for their state that is well beyond that of the private citizen and therefore hold the power of the sword by decree of God (Romans 13).

    We experienced a similar type of unwarranted, unprovoked attack on America on September 11, 2001. Consequently, it is appropriate for America to declare these attacks as acts of war, and the measured, calculated response of the U.S. has been within biblical grounds (see Romans 13:1-4). It is a just and right cause to do so.

    I will fight to THE DEATH (the attacker’s death or my own) to protect my family’s life, and I will serve my country if called upon, I have already served 8 years in the Army from 1969 to 1976. I will also do what is needed to protect Israel if called upon. No amount of ridicule or character assassination will persuade me otherwise. I’m not saying that it’s OK to kill or wage war and I’m not saying that I like war, what I’m saying is that if someone tries to kill me or try to destroy my home then I will fight back. The United States with all her faults (nothing is perfect) is the only place I want to live. If people don’t like the way things are then they can VOTE! And change the United States, we now have Mr. Obama, people voted because they wanted change; let us see what Mr. Obama does. That is what makes the USA a great nation. I didn’t vote for Mr. Obama because I thought he was anti-American, but now he is our president and he deserves a chance to prove himself.

    Sure the US is the bully of the world and has no heart! How people forget Bosnia and Herzegovina to save Muslims, Americans died to also help the Muslim people of Somalia.

    You know if you want to change the people of America you don’t do it by attacking their integrity or the integrity of their homeland. You guys and your $5000.00 words are turning people off and or making them angry. Spouting hate and insulting people do not win you friends; you should find a corner to hide in if that is what you want to do.

    As for the nation of Israel it would be ludicrous to expect Israel to lie down and let the crazy radical Muslim terrorist kill them. Think the Lord God that you are in the minority.

    Julias

  7. Pingback: The Final Solution is a No-State Solution, by William Bowles « Dandelion Salad

  8. NATUREBOY: there are seriuos problems with your paradigm.
    1.you are using the word irrational in the pergorative. go back and re-read your Neitzche. he points out in ”the birth of tragedy” that the greatness of greek culture was in its irrationality .
    2.multiculteralism : another social engineering job done by anti -ethnocentrists that ends up becoming just as tribal in its own way ..hence remaining in the viciuos cycle of the tribal itself. is it not a substitute for what was done and can still be done thru a naturally flowing fiath in a supernatural GOD.? Acts 13 –is an example of the early christians that we of all different tribes coming together in Antioch . this is true heterogeneity ..christian universalism . Jesus came to end the blood lines with his sacrifice and break down all sexism , racsism , agism , patriachy , etc. it does not get any more revolutionary than the Jesus model .
    3.after life cult ? what ??? THY KINGDOM COME ON EARTH . that is Now . inside us . without that , we remain in the cult of our own selfishness . this is what i call the cult of One . DEADLY . christ is the way out .

  9. You are right, I can’t sit through verse #1 of Gideon’s bible without rolling my eyes… but I suppose that’s my problem, not one for believers to be insulted by. This brand of after-life cult, misogynistic old-man stuff, it’s all irrational to me, and whatever spiritual and moral lessons by Jesus are lost in the endless revisions by centuries of obsessions by saints and scribners, and all the wars and atrocities committed by colonialists in his name.

    I suppose I align with the Chomskeyite position of banishing irrational thoughts, not that I’m attracted to mysticism in the first place. There’s enough of fascination in the world without needing to sublimate to some other spiritual plane to escape it. For me, life on earth is as god as it gets.

    But some of those illuminated manuscripts by the monks were amazing…

    My only fascination with Christians and Muslims are Mosques and Cathedrals, too bad most of the great synagogues are gone. Belief does beget the great art, music and architecture, and every so often inspires the greatest voices for peace, justice and the rule of law, as per Dr. King, who, along with Mahalia Jackson I could listen to for hours, and do (or love, as per Rumi and sufi poets).

    It’s not so much the religious indoctrination of Americans that bothers me, it’s the evangelical militarism. I have no problem with people who believe what they want, I just find their beliefs utterly unbelievable, and therefore irrational. To ‘believe’ means to relent the requirement that we question authority. Believing unquestioningly is about the most dangerous thing a mass of people can do, and those who have done so on religious grounds have done some of the worst things in the name of said beliefs imaginable. Believing begets cultism, nationalism, militarism and racism. Believing unquestioningly is a bad habit that leads to international atrocity, and ideologically-driven purges and inquisitions, and it is in this believer disease that I find fault with followers.

    But that is my matter. When it ceases to be my matter, is when it becomes violent. Now is an era of American violence, and it appears to be powered by belief, and particularly ill-conceived belief at that: Evangelical Christian rightists, together with their mega-churches and their money-mongering, looks like a particularly tacky and shallow form of Christianity, but morphing it with the right-wing conservatives and their war-machine, using these blind-believers to sweep in some of the most militaristic, greed-mongering regimes the nation has seen over the past 40 years, this is a crime, a national, Christian crime of complicity (or as some would say on ICH forums, it’s the jews who are behind it all, secretly pulling the world’s strings), and it’s no wonder the rest of the world shakes their heads.

    Of all the crazy evangelicals, it’s the dispensationalist who seem to be the most dangerous, the most activist, and who pose the greatest threat in terms of manipulating American militarism on the international scene, particularly in the Mideast.

    Julias, these ideologies are not a debate I’m prepared to have, nor does it hold my interest. But I do question one point:

    You say jews are a ‘race’ it’s in the ‘genes’, these are statements based not in faith nor tribal identity but in science. You should bear in mind that this quasi-biological distinction you are making is exactly the sort of thinking that was turned on its head by the Eugenecists, and everyone else who finds fault with jews based in their supposedly errant genetics.

    Where in the human genome, which now lays out in molecular detail exactly what protein-codes formulate a human, where are the genes which show that the jews are different, special, or otherwise genetically identifiable in some special, superior way? Eastern jews are some of the most mixed of all ethnicities, where does one find alliance with them on ethnic grounds, and which of them are more ‘chosen’, the more semitic-looking ones, or the blond, light types?

    I’m not one to define myself in terms of over-reacting to antiquated anti-semites who apparently make a genetic claim that we are corrupt by birth, any more than I’ll align with the idea I’ve heard from some jews that a jew is somehow a ‘special’ thing, and that god had something to do with selecting them somehow for biblical propriety, and that we are somehow all linked by birthright (linked we are, but by persecution by believers who believe we are by birth bad).

    The former who claim genetic corruption are vile racists of the worst possible kind, and thankfully entirely disproved recently (and to think the ‘3/5ths of a human being’ was believed for so long), and the latter are insufferable racial elitists.

    Either way this type of separatism, exceptionalism, nationalism, it’s utterly disproved, and an attitude of ethnic ‘us and them’, ‘blood is thicker than water’, complete nonesense.

    Celebrate the good of ethnic tribal pasts, but leave the ideology in the shtetl and the bible, and move forward into a multicultural world where no tribe is exceptional, least of all on genetic grounds.

    But of course I know nothing, and therefore claim nothing as fact, only points of view.

  10. Revelation 7:4

    And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
    5: Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 6: Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand 7: Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    Revelation 14:1

    And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. 2: And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the (hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.) 4: These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. (These were redeemed from among men), being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

    Some believe that the 144,000 will come from the original 12 tribes of Israel, the ones that lived a pure life that had gone to heaven waiting to come to Earth to fight the great Satan.

    Jehovah Witness believe that the 144,000 will come from their ranks, so they strive to do good works, and to save as many souls as they can from their missionary work.

    And then some people like myself believe that the 144,000 will come from today’s Israel.

    I do believe that the end times are at hand. More on that later

    Julias

  11. nature boy – i am no christian zionist but i am a christian . allow me to say 3 words to you ”christ against christianity ”. what does that sum up in your mind ?

    your hatred for american christianity is nothing compared to mine . why ? because the person to whom i love and saved me 34 years ago i have seen misrepresented and his named dragged thru the mud.

    most non believers say that they cant stand american christianity . they say it is hypocritical. they are right ! it is hypocritical . but where the non believer is being dishonest is in saying that they cant stand it . the fact of the matter is –the non believer loves it . why ? it is an easy scapegoat.

    because it is the perfect excuse to not examine for themselves the new testament . it is the perfect cop out . it is intellectually dishonest to have contempt prior to investigation . if you have totally investigated the new testament and have contempt , than at least you took a good hard honest look at it . i have no argument with a man who does that. but to not really examine it is just as mindless as the fundamentalist in america that have made this country so damn puritanical and narrowminded.

    rememebr -christ , the real christ , jesus christ ,is against christianty . it is too bad that more people are not as radical as him . then we would see real change.

  12. Why don’t you move to Canada? I’m also a born Jew and have been to Israel in 1971. My Great, Great Grandfather came to America from Russia in 1885 Samuel Wolfson Zacuto Check out http://home.flash.net/~mdccull/More/Zacuto/

    Unlike you I’m proud of my heritage, Judaism is much more than a religion it’s a race of people, it’s in the genes. I feel a closeness with the Lord God and have ever since I can remember, I have read Bible stories ever since I learned to read, than started to study the Torah and was Barmitzved in 1964, than in 1971 my sister became a Jehovah witness and I studied (round the circles) with her. Then in 1996 I was ordained a Presbyterian Priest, I do not have a church and never did, I was ordained because my Theology professor wanted to do it in his Church. I do not call myself a Christian or a Jehovah Witness. Even though I believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ I’m still a Jew, the Lord God wants it that way.

    Shalom, may the Lord God be with you.

    Julias

  13. 1. “but what is christian is when they are driven out of the land one last time , that we as christian take them in just like those brave men and woman did during the holocoast in germany . That was a type of what is to come globally” .

    Were I a christian (or a genuine jew for that matter), I’d be down with Rocket. Jesus was all about compassion. ‘They’ will be likely driven out once again, and it will be up to each of us to see our common humanity, and help in any way we can (unrepentant cold-blooded killers can sleep in the dog-house).

    Zionists are not the first to be mislead down some rabbit-hole of ideology, but I fear for them that this particular briar-patch they will not negotiate for very long.

    It a sad time in the ‘holy land’ for the children of Gaza, and the children of Zionism, who are innocent, and did not ask for this horror in which they were born.

    I’d move to Canada, land is cheap, people are more normal (if a bit drunk) and they have no nuclear weapons policy.

  14. “but what is christian is when they are driven out of the land one last time , that we as christian take them in just like those brave men and woman did during the holocoast in germany . that was a type of what is to come globally” .

    Were I a christian (or a genuine jew for that matter), I’d be down with Rocket. Njeus was all about compassion. ‘They’ will be likely driven out once again, and it will be up to each of us to see our common humanity, and help in any way we can.

    Zionists are not the first to be mislead down some rabit-hole of idology, but I fear for them that this particular briar-patch they will not negotiate for very long.

    It a sad time in the ‘holy land’ for the children of Gaza, and the children of Zionism, who are innocent, and did not ask for this horror in which they were born.

    I’d move to Canada, land is cheap, people are more normal (if a bit drunk) and they have no nuclear weapons policy.

  15. Ah but I already have, apparently being born a jew, I am an ethnic ‘Zionazi’, condemned to torture by fire for the crimes of my ‘kabalist’ cabal, a genetically deranged breed bent on world dominion… You biblical literalists need to straighten out your story about jews.

    Are we the devil with horns who drink christian blood for breakfast, or are we your ticket to the jihadists version of an after-life of virgins and dates? If so, kneel, before me, for without my return to the promised land, your salvation will forever be a fantasy (Braaah-haa-ha!)

    This is not a matter of opinion nor debate, it’s a matter of rational and irrational, post-reformation vs. medievil inquisition, maniac vs. moral.

    Apparently you support killing, therefore you cannot be a Christian, as your chosen devil-worshiping ideology violates the commandments by which Christians must live, without which they are by definition sinners, and bound irredeemably to an eternity of white-phosphorous hell.

    Bottom line: Did you support Bush and his born-again bible-babble, did you support his pre-emptive strike against Iraq, and if so, exactly how have you redeemed yourself for your advocacy for crimes against humanity?? Have you self-flagellated yourself in front of the Hagueonce it was shown that Iraq posed no threat to Waco, or did you just go back to posting malarkey online and hope that the great redeemer will note your less violent parts?

    Let’s hear the truth– your brand of bible-belted blather can’t just go to the confessional and buy your sins, am I right?

  16. Rocket I read your last post again and found what I had missed, I’m also checking out Ben Israel. I’ll study this and get back with you. May be a couple of days, Im retired but still working to put my daughter through college.

    No more sermons, I’ll try to keep it short.

    Julias

  17. nature boy I cant pass up this one!

    “You are a SINNER Mr. Caesar, for you have advocated the massacre of the innocents, and for that you are NOT, and can NEVER BE a Christian.”

    This is what I mean by bitter, and what makes people nasty.

    My first reaction was to bite back, but I’m trying to hold back, think and reflect, calm down and then respond.

    Who are you to judge me just because we don’t see eye to eye. Judge not lest you be judged” (Matthew 7:1)

    Julias

  18. LOL, Julias, and everything you stand for is exactly everything that is ultimately wrong with the godforsaken heartland of the USA, bent on believing in superstition, and killing and dying for these lies.

    I wish I could say you no longer exist for me as well, but unfortunately it is YOUR guy, your fake texan oil-man from back east who invaded Iraq, and killed all those innocents with our money and in our names, am I right?

    A WAR CRIMINAL in the name of ‘christ’ is a WAR CRIMINAL by any other name.

    You are a SINNER Mr. Caesar, for you have advocated the massacre of the innocents, and for that you are NOT, and can NEVER BE a Christian.

    Talk about false prophets….

  19. Rocket, maybe I’m missing something, but I think I said all that, you put it in one paragraph whereas I put it in 3 long parts. Very well done!

    “Through the temporary setting aside of Israel, God brought salvation to the Gentiles. But when Israel is returned to that place of prominence in fulfillment of the Bible prophecies, even more Gentiles will be saved as a result.”

    Julias

  20. How can it be that being born a jew, we are the source of such intense scriptural debate?

    I can tell you this, the only thing that differentiates me from you is that some nincompoop decided I needed to be circumcised. All the rest of this is fantasy, be it by crazed anti-semites who are convinced I’m electronically connected to some ‘rothschild’ or ‘prion of zion’ and therefore bent on world dominion, or that I’m somehow a chosen entity endowed by scripture to be something more special (or more deserving of persecution) than others, holding some key to salvation based on whether I live in the godforsaken desert, or in the temperate climes surrounded by heathens which I prefer.

    Christian Zionists need to realize that Leiberless is USING you for funds for his own miserable Zionistic obsessions.

    You guys need to chill. I don’t know any moneylenders, nor has some bearded ghost appeared to me and said I was special. The only difference is that some miserable moyle chopped off something I wish I still had.

    Folks need to stop dwelling in the clouds of some fantasy afterlife, pull your nose out from the interstices of the new testament, and get with the reality of the now: Nobody cares about your prayers, nobody has been helped by them, jews are as deranged as any other scriptural literalists, and enough with the mania and violence already.

    It’s not nostalgic nor profound to be superstitious, it’s irresponsible.

  21. Natureboy you are a very bitter person that makes people nasy, nothing any one can say will say you so therefore I will ignore you. You no longer exist for me.

  22. julias , it has been my experience with christian zionist that they are very ala carte with prophecy. peter said that Jesus is withheld in the heavens until; ALL things spoken by the prophets be fulfilled. ALL things means ALL things. ALL is a big word.

    so what is left ? the Israel that is propped up by man is allowed to be propped up by divine providence . this i will grant you . but why ? so they can fail in the land and go thru one last diaspora and experience what jeremeiah calls ”the time of jacobs trouble ” in which as Amos 9 says that they will be sifted among ALL nations .

    this i submit to you sir has not happened yet. why does jeremiah call it the time of jacobs trouble ? becuase jacob was a wheeler and dealer . he had to meet God face to face in the wilderness to become Israel . that is the sifting thru ALL nations . if this be the case then supporting present day Israel i concur is not christian . but what is christian is when they are driven out of the land one last time , that we as christian take them in just like those brave men and woman did during the holocoast in germany . that was a type of what is to come globally .

    if you want more specifics on this you may want to go to http://www.benisrael.org/ and order for free the 3 part video tape series by messianic jew Art Katz explaining the time of jacobs trouble , the final diaspora , our responsibility to jews during their greatest distress , and how a real Israel formed by God will come after a collective Jacob truly becomes Israel . then and only then will the messiah return .

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