Focus on Gaza: A Crime of War?

Dandelion Salad

Warning

This video may contain images depicting the reality and horror of war/violence and should only be viewed by a mature audience.

AlJazeeraEnglish

Human rights investigators continue to look into allegations that Israeli soldiers may have committed crimes of war during their Gaza military campaign.

As the first Focus on Gaza A Crime of War? looks at the story of an alleged war crime that occurred during the war in the small village of Khuzaa, half a kilometre from the Israeli border.

Ayman Mohyeldin speaks with village residents who tell the story of a Gazan woman who was killed with a single shot to the head while waving a white flag as she led children to safety.

see

Bil’in invaded by Israeli Army 18-02-2009

Viva Palestina (The Gaza Convoy) + UK releases 3 Viva Palestina members

Israel’s parties fight for power + Will Obama shift US Middle East policy? with Daniel Levy

***

Online appeal for Gaza Convoy
Online appeal for Gaza Convoy

57 thoughts on “Focus on Gaza: A Crime of War?

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  6. Thanks for the conversation, I think we’ve all reached a point of exhaustion on this one for now… I’m always around and I look forward to our next talk.

    Your all encouraged to visit my “poisonous” site as well to share your views,
    One of the reasons I have always frequented DS is because it has pretty much everything on the left you need to know without the crazed ramblings found in the comments sections of other sites. Could you imagine the flame war that would have started if I had spoken honestly at the Kos or MyDD?

    • Unfortunately, Mr. Buffoon, the civilian victims of ‘conflict’ don’t have the luxury of a ‘point of exhaustion’ after illegal combat weapons were intentionally directed at them.

      People, innocents, children, are blinded, de-limbed, burned to the bone, fighting for their lives with insufficient medical resources as we speak.

      Your flip and utterly disproved ideas of ‘segregation’ as legitimacy for gratuitous assault with illegal weapons are psychopathic to their core, sorry to say.

      But psychopathology of war-criminal enlisted militarists who are fascinated with the infliction of devastation of the bodies of individuals are not minds that can be reasoned with.

      Try again to read the links I directed you to, and you would see that there was no legitimacy to the militaristic horror inflicted on innocents in almost all of the ‘interventions’ by the USA since WW2.

      This horror which survivors still suffer and from which they will be crippled for life were crimes, and crimes are crimes, regardless of who commits them.

      If the USA (or its 51st state of Israel) is to be considered a nation of laws, they must abide those laws, and if facing breaches of those laws, must follow legal procedures.

      Sorry, but those who breach international law, are war-criminals, and must be prosecuted as such, right down to the grunt who carries them out.

      ‘Exhaustion’ won’t get you out of this, soldier. If you committed crimes of war, you are a war-criminal. Period.

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  9. And as for the issue of peace….

    My friend Dandelion is Jewish. I am Muslim. Natureboy has Jewish family. We are peaceful to each other as we share many of the same viewpoints.

    I am having a happy day today because my belief that we can get past our differences and find common ground has borne fruit. On digg.com I kept running across a rather aggressive, nasty pro-Zionist and he and I locked horns many times. I made an effort, as hard as it was, to look for common ground and in our next session of trading comments, I approached our discussion from the common ground and within a few days, we reached a peace, and tonight….an email inviting me to be one of his friends. Detente. Now, if we can listen to each other’s points of view with respect and a willingness to learn, there is hope for the world. InshaAllah. Peace.

    • Peace to you, too, Mary. So well stated. Cool that you and the pro-Zionist person are now friends. Peace is attainable, each one of us must make the commitment to be peaceful. Of course, that means not enlisting in the military or refusing to kill if already in the military. The numbers of refuseniks are growing.

      People the world over have more in common than have differences. Why is there war? Who benefits from waging war? Those in power and corporations that make money selling weapons. Most people want to live peacefully, raise a family if they choose to have children, and go about their daily lives. Those in power use the “divide and conquer” method to control the masses. We must resist.

      • No doubt. But there is clearly another side, those (males) who see war as valorous, exciting, a historic test of their wits and athleticism, valor and guts.

        Those who are actually fascinated with the splatterings of brains, and need only a small excuse to carry out such gruesome crimes.

        I propose that our ‘Buffoon’ is just one of those fire-power-addicted psychopaths, although to expose him as such would only bring forth his anger and violence, and nationalism and militarism.

        Such individuals are so transfixed by an addiction to the fascination of weapons of war, they literally can’t be fixed.

    • There is a fascination, however with firearms, weapons of war, and the ‘power’ people find therein, and therein lies a profound poison to peace.

      It is said that 4% of people are genuine sociopaths, people without conscience. These people don’t think the same way as lovers of peace, and have no feelings about torture, killing, rape and murder.

      There are many others who can be obviously easily trained to carry out these crimes, particularly males.

      It is important to acknowledge this about our species. The enemy is not the ‘other’ it is ourselves.

      Beware of the violent among us. And them.

  10. LOL Dandelion, (and I’m not making light of it) that’s what happens during conflict, people die. Sometimes innocent people.
    If you cannot support a nation that kills and maims children, then how do you support Hamas?
    You mention segregation doesn’t work, eh, I agree to an extent, but what about voluntary segregation? And would you also agree that forced integration is an equally bad idea? You can’t change human nature by assuming you hold the moral high ground and trying to “social engineer.”

    To show I’m not a loon, I get no pleasure out of watching anyone get hurt in war/conflict. I just wish that you would admit that Hamas is responsible for gruesome acts as well.
    You ever tried to pull two dogs apart in a fight? You tend to end up bleeding yourself…

    • Who said I support Hamas? Not I. Read my comments again, please. Do I understand why the people elected Hamas, yes, but that doesn’t mean I support them. I do think we have to acknowledge that they are indeed the ruling party, democratically elected by the people, though.

      I do not support any violence, it’s against my religion, no matter the perpetrator. I’ve been very consistent in that view.

      DS does not take sides. Remember the world is in color, not black and white. Take a peek out your window.

      Again, two wrongs do not make a right.

  11. Some of us were there, at least in a way. I have a close friend living in Bethlehem, and my fiance has 37 relatives living in Gaza. His aunt was killed during this latest “conflict” by an Israeli bomb which was dropped on her house. And no, she is neither a “terrorist,” nor did she have weapons stashed in her house or a tunnel underneath it. She just happened to be there, an innocent person hiding in her home. In fact, most of the dead and wounded were just like her – collateral damage.

    • I’m so sorry to hear of the loss of your fiance’s aunt, my sincere condolences, Mary.

      Many of the posts on this topic are reports from people who were there. One only needs to look at the video reports of the devastation created by this war, entire streets gone, olive trees uprooted, Zoo animals shot! Israel also banned journalists from entering Gaza, so the reports during the war were from those who were there and journalists already there. The Israeli propaganda machine running the entire time in Western news outlets.

      A humanitarian worker whom I correspond with lost her 6 yr old daughter. Please see her poem, https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/a-gaza-story-by-wda-poem/

      • The crux of the whole matter is that innocent people are still being oppressed and they are being killed indiscriminately by a regime that apparently perceives them as so insignificant that it doesn’t seriously worry about such things as white phosphorus or DIME.

        It is so politically incorrect to voice any support for Hamas, but I do support them because there is no one else there who is actively resisting this illegal occupation. I also support them because they were elected by the people, and when I was in Egypt I made the acquaintance of a person affiliated with both Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, and I came away from that experience with a fuller understanding of what both groups represent. And I am one hundred percent certain of their sincerity when they talk about their efforts to make peace and end the suffering of the Palestinian people.

        I find it very frustrating, to say the least, that the news media here is so unfair to Hamas but even more unfair to the people of Palestine.

  12. “Muslims are going to come at us. No matter where we are, no matter how nice we’re being to them.”

    Buffoon, that is exactly what you are. There is no doubt whatsoever left in my mind.

    I have only a tiny hope left that you have realized by now that I am a Muslim, and that you feel a bit embarrassed by your bigoted remark.

    News flash for you: No one is going to come at you, at least not the Muslims. There is no big world-wide conspiracy by Muslims to “come at” anyone or take over the world. This is an amazing fantasy that seems to be a favorite planted in the minds of non-thinking Americans who, like you, prefer to see things in black and white because it’s easier for you.

    Before I allow my anger at your remarks to continue to erode my behavior, I will end this comment with only one more statement:

    If you really wish to understand an issue, you have to make an effort to think, and to open your mind to what is unfamiliar.

  13. “I know not all who practice Islam are bad people, I’ve lived on Muslim soil for about 5 of my 40 years, great people. BUT and this is a bug but, never, do you see the Muslim community (for the most part) outraged over what what some are doing in their name.”

    Yeah, I do, Buffoon. As much as they can do, anyway, seeing that the vast majority of them are living under oppressive dictatorships financed in large part by US money.

    Said dictators (Hosni Mubarak, King Abdullah of Jordan, Prince Faisal of Saudi Arabia, among others) are bound by agreements made with both Israel and the US not to interfere in anything Israel inflicts on the Palestinian people. These dictators, as well as those rulers of Morocco, Algeria, etc., will not risk the ire of the US and subsequent loss of economic and military aid that would be the result of any action they took to help the people of Palestine. In the Muslim world this is seen as a great betrayal of our brothers and sisters in Islam, but the Muslim people have no political or economic power, as most of them are poor from living under these Arab dictatorships.

    Just so that you understand, however – Hamas and the resistance fighters in Gaza are not fighting in the name of Islam so much as they are fighting for freedom from occupation. Since 1948 Israel has killed many, many Palestinians and stolen land, water and humanity from these people, 4 million of whom are classified as refugees by the United Nations.

  14. Nature boy, you sort of lost me there a few times, but you did finish with the “discussion is mute,” sooooo, good luck with all that guy 🙂

    • It’s really quite simple:

      “But the discussion is mute. What israelis did in Gaza were war-crimes. All ideology aside, those who are war-criminals must be prosecuted as such, unless you are saying some acts of war which blatantly violate the Geneva accords are sometimes justified?”

      Just nswer the question, so we all know for once and for all where gun-addicted promponents of the illegal use of murderous militaristic force stand: Is there the rule of international law, or does law exist at the end of your big amerigoon ‘stick’?

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  17. It is obvious that a War Crimes Trial needs to take place and expose Israel for what it is– An illegal terrorist state.

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  19. Additionally:

    “The use of DU weapons goes against established principles of humanitarian law, notably principles of the 4th Geneva Convention and some UN guidelines relative to:

    1) The protection of civilian populations – Articles 48 and 51;

    2) The limitation of unnecessary human suffering – Article 35; and

    3) The limitation of damage to the environment – Articles 35 and 55.

    Medics and independent human rights organizations released similar reports of depleted uranium and DIME weapons during and after the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war that took place in Lebanon. Israel was able to get away with many of the same war crimes perpetrated against Lebanese civilians after that conflict that they are guilty of inflicting on the civilian population of Gaza in their recent three-week long massacre in which municipal buildings, police stations, mosques, media buildings (including al-Aqsa television), UN schools, hospitals, ambulances, and thousands of civilian homes were targeted by Israel.

  20. Do you mean the Taliban that the USA’s CIA poured arms and support into in the 1980’s? Headed by a mullah supported with arms by the Mullahs of Iran who came about through direct result of the USA’s CIA destabilizing and overthrowing the model democracy of the region implemented by Massadeq? Or perhaps you’re alluding to the “Gas & Biological weapons” employed by the CIA’s puppet in Iraq, Mr. Hussein?

    The articles signed into law of the 4th Geneva Convention in 1949 clearly breached:

    1) Collective punishment – Violation of Article 33 of the 4th Geneva Convention;

    2) Targeting civilians – Violation of Article 4 of the 4th Geneva Convention and

    3) Disproportionate military response – Violation of Article 3 of the 4th Geneva Convention.

    Additionally:
    The Geneva Treaty of 1980 specifically prohibits the use of white phosphorous as a weapon in any areas where civilians are known to reside.

    http://www.imemc.org/article/58603

    • Yeah, that Taliban,…. I don’t need history lessons, I know full well the history of the two sides, I stand with the west and Israel….

      I always ask this question here and never get an answer, do you think if Israel left the region and the US ceased all military action across the globe, do you think the warped ideology of Islam would stop? Do you think Russia, China and Jong Il would become peaceful regimes?

      John Lennon gave peace a chance, it didn’t work…. never will, its not how the human animal is wired…

      • I think it would help. As a descendant of Jews, I find Zionism a pretty warped ideology in practice. Is ‘standing with’ the cult of the Dispensationalists and scriptural literalists who promote zionist ideology and atrocity any better? Two absurdities don’t make either one right.

        I also find radical islam and the Taliban thoroughly bizarre, but if anything ‘didn’t work’ it was the militaristic bush doctrine of ‘preemptive’ warmongering for preposterous reasons.

        John Lennon was, I believe, speaking out against Vietnam. Ultimately ‘peace’ was forced to work by our own failure in that campaign, at disastrous cost. Did we learn?

        What does it take to make the USA a ‘peaceful regime’, how much failed, wasteful policing of the world and sponsoring of regimes does it take to expose the USA’s own nefarious reasons for all its militaristic meddling?

        At a certain point it becomes overwhelmingly apparent that the ‘glory’ and ‘valor’ american soldiers seek to emulate from WW2 by enlisting for these illegal invasions are not helping, rather they are rendering themselves complicit in warcrimes.

        That point was overwhelmingly passed with the failed false-flag occupation and invasion of Vietnam.

        http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

        But the point of the post was War-Crimes in Gaza. Crimes of war are just that, Crimes of the worst order.

        So now for a question I always ask of supporters of these many US militaristic ‘interventions’:

        If the USA stands for ‘democracy’ (by force, if necessary), why did it overthrow the democracy of Mossadeq’s Iran in 1954, installing the Shah, ultimately resulting in the extremist Mullahs we now so revile?

      • Buffoon – your assertion that Islam is a “warped ideology” is deeply offensive.

        That is probably the reason no one here answers your question.

  21. Hmm,, Nature Boy,

    The Geneva Conventions consist of four treaties formulated in Geneva, Switzerland, that set the standards for international law for humanitarian concerns.

    They chiefly concern the treatment of non-combatants and prisoners of war. They do not affect the use of weapons in war, which are covered by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 and the Geneva Protocol on the use of gas and biological weapons of 1925 (The 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees is also referred to as “the Geneva Convention”, but it is not part of these four).

    How quick can you get the Taliban on board?

    • Buffoon, are you trying to justify Israel’s use of white phosphorous on the civilians in Gaza? Did you watch the entire video report, it’s quite disturbing, to say the least.

      • Hi Dandelion, no, not trying to justify anything either side does, just injecting my (albeit) biased dose of levity. The use of women suicide bombers in markets full of women and children is any better?

        I know the argument always comes back to the mere presence of Israel in the region so let me try to deflect that one before it comes.

        The Jews aren’t going anywhere, it’d be like Florida deciding one day it doesn’t want anymore Mexicans in it.

        In this world we have to choose sides, grey areas exist but IMO are irrelevant, I choose to side with Israel, mainly because Islam is an evil form of government parading as a religion. Are all Muslim’s bad? NO, I just get frustrated when I see filthy people like the ones (who should be beaten) at NYU demanding G-D knows what for Palesitne and never once considering the rockets deployed daily into Israeli neighborhoods.

        It’s baffling why any Jew would NOT defend Israel.

        • Islam is an evil form of government parading as a religion?

          I kindly ask, Buffoon (an appropriate moniker), that you take your hate speech elsewhere.

          As for the people of Gaza, they have paid in blood for rockets that didn’t kill a single Israeli. The rockets were not intended to kill anyone, in any event. They were fired in protest of the continued occupation of Palestine.

          The struggle of Palestine is not a Muslim issue per se. It is a political struggle against 61 years of ethnic cleansing. By the way, there are a good many Christian Arabs living in Palestine, and particularly in Gaza.

        • Buffoon: ‘Baffling’? Because I am born of jews, I should defend zionism? Am I by birthright somehow connected to a political ideology, or is it a religious ideology, or both.

          You need to separate learned religious ideologies from ‘birthright’ (for the same reasons one separates church from state). One is a philosophical, scriptural tradition and concept, one is a laboratory evidenced genome.

          Are you saying they are one and the same, that bloodlines somehow define ideology? Do laws apply to all, or are some by birth and race absolved?

          I think science would empirically prove you wrong, as did the failure of the Nazis to substantiate eugenics.

          History is replete with colonial invasions and settlements, at the tragic expense of aboriginal ‘second-class’ residents. The installation of colonies by force is usually for aquisition of resources and territory. In the case of israel, it’s an opportunistic interpretation of scripture. Does that make it more valid?

          The persecution of jews in Europe was a horrific crime of incredible proportions, but the militaristic subjugation and dominion by zionists via war-crimes over the Palestinians is definitely also a crime, especially in light of the laws signed into effect at Geneva.

          We can’t fix now what the Nazis did (strange how while you monitor DS to see what’s happening on the ‘left’, the extreme ‘right’ in this nation tend to delve into a bizarre fascination with firearms ‘white power’, racism and obsolete racist ideological cultism), it is not too late to speak out now against the abuse of the indigenous population of Palestine, who have their own culture, their own ways, and should never have been displaced and abused for illegitimate and absurd scriptural reasons. If we wanted a safe place for observant jews, we had plenty of vacant space in Nevada, if deserts were their desired climate.

          But the discussion is mute. What israelis did in Gaza were war-crimes. All ideology aside, those who are war-criminals must be prosecuted as such, unless you are saying some acts of war which blatantly violate the Geneva accords are sometimes justified?

    • Great commentaries, Natureboy. You are learned and eloquent.

      This Buffoon person seems to think in absolutes whether it concerns Jews or Muslims. I belong to a “warped ideology” because I am a Muslim, and you should automatically be pro-Zionist because you are a Jew.

      I think this discussion was valuable because it illustrates the polemic nature of the issue of Israel/Palestine. We are made to look at the issues of religion, human rights, political struggle, morality and racism, and as a religious person the situation of Israel and Palestine

      • I accidentally clicked on the submit button before I was finished. Please bear with me.

        As a religious person sometimes Israel and Palestine seem to be a message from God, because of all these elements seeming to be embodied in one place. Through the issue of this occupation we are given an opportunity to focus on our personal beliefs and also those of the society in which we live. Maybe this is what God intends. Palestine calls to the world to act on its beliefs of justice, brotherhood and morality. Israel shows us what happens when the victim becomes the victimizer. This occupation must come to an end, for all our sakes.

        • Mary, your right, I tend to see the world in black and white, it made my years in the military easier, in certain (most) situations, grey areas cause one to pause and often make very bad decisions.
          I know not all who practice Islam are bad people, I’ve lived on Muslim soil for about 5 of my 40 years, great people. BUT and this is a bug but, never, do you see the Muslim community (for the most part) outraged over what what some are doing in their name.
          Makes my black and white world a little more black and white you know?
          I’m not a Zionist, I’m a realist. I say this with the strongest conviction that I’m 100% correct, no matter what Israel does or goes, no matter what the US does. Muslims are going to come at us. No matter where we are, no matter how nice we’re being to them.
          The world is getting smaller, the resources are becoming a bigger commodity. Jungle law is in effect. I know that sounds barbaric to a liberal mind, but its the truth and no amount of playing nice is going to change it.
          I say again, I don’t come here to troll, flame or incite, I really do like the salad… I just rarely agree

        • However, the world is in color, Buffoon. My suggestion is that you get more of your news from independent outlets, certainly not Fox, or CNN, etc.

          See: https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/02/21/do-americans-get-the-truth-by-timothy-v-gatto/

          Not sure if you answered my question in another comment, did you watch this entire video report?

          What Israel’s govt and military did to the civilians (the regular, normal people) is a war crime.

          While I understand why Hamas fires their rockets at Israel, I do not condone it. Personally, I think it’s a stupid response to the blockade and occupation, but I still can understand why they would do this. It’s called resistance. All you have to do is put yourself into their situation and think about what would you do if another government was controlling you in the ways that Israel is controlling the people of Gaza (and the West Bank; and the Israeli Arab citizens).

          Please see:

          https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/02/15/kathy-kelly-suppose-that-the-us-weapon-makers-had-to-use-a-tunnel-to-deliver-weapons-to-israel/

          https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/the-gaza-song/

          https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/01/27/60-minutes-is-peace-out-of-reach/

          https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/01/24/unseen-gaza/

          https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/gaza-villages-wiped-off-the-map/

          https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2009/01/15/israels-war-of-deceit-lies-and-propaganda%c2%a0by-uri-avnery/ (by an Israeli Jew)

          What I do NOT understand is why Israel’s govt/military had to use chemical weapons, F-16s, etc against the civilian population in Gaza? Like Chomsky said, there were other ways to negotiate.

          Israel broke the ceasefire on Nov 4 (while the world was paying attention to the US presidential election). They also planned this invasion 6 months to a year ago.

        • Good Morning Dandelion, Yes I watched it, and in my defense, I watch AlJazeera very closely for levity, don’t know if you would consider that a good way to get the opposing view but as with our MSM, it tends to be one sided.
          Your argument of what would I do you’ll win all day because of course, I’d do the same thing. We both know there are other forces at work stoking the feud though, don’t we?

          You keep harking on the supposed white phosphorous use, WP is used for many things in munitions one of them being illumination. Eh, none of us were there so we have to go by the reports we get and depending on which outlet we watch, the story will vary.

          Chomsky wishes to negotiate? How do you negotiate with animals like this?
          http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/baby-killer-calls-for-destruction-of.html

          I’d direct you to my site but I’m far too abrasive and low brow to hold the interest of your readers..

          Bottom line? Its a screwed up situation and neither side wants to concede much. At the end of the day a Jewish state is far more appealing to me than a Palestinian one. I make no apologies for saying it.
          That’s not to say that the Palestinians and Israelis shouldn’t just agree on a border and leave it alone already, IMO, nothing will satisfy Hamas except wiping Israel from the map…
          Someones got to lose…

        • Two wrongs never make a right. Israel is holding political prisoners and they should have been released not a murderer.

          In reference to your statement that none of us were there, there have been plenty of video reports showing the WP and the burns received by children, women and men. Some in this video above.

          In this recent war over 1300 people were killed, many thousands injured severely (limbs blown off, horrendous burns, etc), many of which are children. I cannot support a nation that kills and maims children, women and men. These are all war crimes. My God, the Israeli Army killed Zoo animals and farmers’ animals. There is no justification for this obscene action.

          The US taxpayers paid and made these horrendous weapons. We must let our Congresspeople know how we feel about this.

          Please see: http://en.wordpress.com/tag/chemical-weapons-white-phosphorus-du/ (list of posts on this topic)

          Jews lived peacefully in Palestine before the state of Israel, it can be done again. Segregation (apartheid) doesn’t work.

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