Why the Christ Story is Not a Copycat of Ancient Religious Myths by Rocket Kirchner (repost)

by Rocket Kirchner
Writer, Dandelion Salad
Rocket Kirchner (blog)
Rocket Kirchner (youtube channel)
Originally posted March 6, 2011

Mithras

Image by Maia C via Flickr

Every time I hear someone say that the story of the life of Jesus of Nazareth is nothing more than recycled ideas from mystery religious cults and myths, it just reminds of me of that famous line by British playwright George Bernard Shaw, “People would rather die than think”. The standard line goes something like this, “Well, you do know that there really is nothing Jesus either said or did that is laid out in the gospels that cannot be found in the pagan mystery rites and stories of Mithras, Adonis, Attis, Dionysus, Osiris, and many many others.” To which I respond, “Oh, really?”

French scholar Andre Boulanger said, “The conception that the god dies and is resurrected in order to lead his faithful to eternal life is represented in no Hellenistic mystery religion”. Now, if Boulanger’s statement is historically accurate than why do most people today think and state the contrary? A) They just heard it somewhere as a pop culture catch-all phrase and don’t really study in-depth the ancient world. Or B) They are reading revisionist historians like Freke, Gandy, Harpur, Graves, and many others that blur the lines between the utter uniqueness of the Christ story with pagan religions. Many like to start with the Persian myth of Mithras, claiming virgin birth and sacrificial death. But legend tells us that Mithras was born out of a rock fully formed, and his sacrifice to the gods was not Himself but rather a bull. There is no virgin birth in the stories of Persus or Dionysus, Greek mythology is clear about that. So then, what about the story of Adonis’ resurrection many would ask. There is a lot of truth to that but along with the resurrections of Murduk and Attis, these are all post-dated some 150 to 350 years after Christ. And the word in Greek for Christ’s resurrection is not the same as the Greek word for the others. One was a literal bodily resurrection and the others were just resuscitations.

Now, a favorite to bring up in this area of discussion for many is the intriguing myth of Osiris. Here we have a clear cut resurrection, but he never gets up from underground. The Roman historian Plutarch writes about this 200 years after Christ. So, how could all of these myths that post-date the era of the Christian martyrs of the early church have any influence on them? The fact is, they didn’t. Those who are not thinking this through have their chronology all backwards. All today’s revisionists have are sweeping generalizations based on questionable evidence that could never stand up under the scrutiny of careful investigation. World renowned historian of religion Mircea Eliade in his three-volume definitive set on the history of religion from the pre-stone age until the late 20th century said,”There is no reason to suppose that primitive Christianity was influenced by the Hellenistic mysteries.” This does not account for the later post-Constantinian church 300 years later that incorporated some of the myths. Eliade was referring to the early church that died specifically for what they believed in full public view, the early first century text of the writings of the New Testament and the early Roman historians that wrote about them of the late first and early second centuries.

So, why is this so important to try and set the record straight on this comment misconception? Because it is just another excuse for people to not look seriously into the absolute uniqueness of the Christ story. It is just another excuse to punt the issue. But when all of the excuses have run out it will take honest intellectual and personal fortitude to embrace Christ as not just another fable, but rather to face Him and his claims head on. And it will take that to dispel self deception and the deception around us in order to get to the root of the problems that can bring the antidote to a sick world that is reeling out of control on the edge of vertigo.

References and more info at the links:

creation.com/was-christianity-plagiarized-from-pagan-myths

www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/Home.html

see

Why the Christ story is not a copycat of ancient religious myths by Rocket Kirchner (if you’d like to view the comments on the original blog post)

The Evidence for the Existence of Jesus

The Jewish Foundation of Christianity

Zeitgeist Refuted Final Cut

Exclusive: Blessed are the destitute, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven by Rocket Kirchner

New Age Christianity: The Crossless Gospel of Deception By Rocket Kirchner

The Crossing: The Event That Changed My Life by Rocket Kirchner

79 thoughts on “Why the Christ Story is Not a Copycat of Ancient Religious Myths by Rocket Kirchner (repost)

  1. Pingback: Why the Christ Story is Not a Copycat of Ancient Religious Myths | Dandelion Salad

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  6. Pingback: New Age Christianity: The Crossless Gospel of Deception By Rocket Kirchner (repost) | Dandelion Salad

    • David , there is no evidence to that. Constantine did not take power till the 4th century A.D. the texts that talk about the Christ story , before the canonization process , and those text of hundreds of gospels that did not even make it into the new testament are dated around the time of the destruction of the temple –70 A.D. gospel of Mark , Gospel of Thomas , etc.

      when you make a statement that something is stolen or copycat , xeroxed , so to speak from something else , you have to back it up with historically and textural analysis . this you did not do . Did you read my article ? i back up my position after decades of study on comparisions and contrasts of pagan mythology and the Christ story . As i have said so many times –i am not seeking to prove that the Christ story is true , but that it is unique as Romanian top religious scholar Marciade Eliade states in his 3 volume set on the subject.

      Even James Carrol is his damning book on Constantine called ”Constantine’s Sword ” does not dispute the fact that the Christ story is unique , but just that Constantine abuses it by using it for war and improper gain .

  7. Pingback: The Gospel Of Mark VS The Imperial Mindset by Rocket Kirchner | Dandelion Salad

  8. Perhaps a personal experience I once had will help in understanding who I am and my opinions on ‘The Church’.

    Around 1994 of 95, I happened to be in Balboa Park, a beautiful area of San Diego that I frequented often.

    In a plaza around a beautiful pool/fountain, I came across a travelling exhibition called, THE MUSEUM OF TORTURE.

    The exhibit contained hundreds of implements and devices to inflict torture upon human beings, with large murals depicting their uses.

    There were tongs, nutcrackers, saws, pliers, thumbscrews, racks, etc.

    One of the most horrific was a impaling pylon made of a single tree.
    It was about 20 feet tall, beginning at the tip, about the diameter of a broom handle and tapering down wider and wider, until about two feet wide, ending in a base about six foot round.

    This thing was covered with a patina of dried human blood, a glazed purplish black. The victims were lowered down from rafters above with sandbags tied to their ankles and ropes to yank on these should the need arise. It usually took from three days to a week for the victim to finally die, as the pole eventually extruded through the clavicle area. The expert henchmen were able to position the victim in such a way as vital organs were slipped by rather than punctured.

    The display was horrific enough in itself. But the original ownership of EVERY item in the museum was the Catholic Church, save one; an Iron Maiden from a private castle in France.

    This was an experience I will never forget as long as I live. Yes, all of these things were centuries old. I suppose we should rejoice in that.

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  9. In your attempt to flesh out the ineffable Rocket, you have created nothing more than a portrait of Rocket.

    So Rocket is “holier than thou”…

    So be it.

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    • ”judge not , lest you be not judged . for in the same measure you judge , you will be judged” Jesus of Nazareth

      i have never judged you hybrid , but this last comment you have judged me . shame on you .

      • straight talk hybrid — i was looking over some of our fruitful dialogue and wondering why and how has it come to this ? what have i done to offend you ? why did you change ? this blog does not allow personal attacks . what is up with this ?

        • I would not comment again, except that this characterizing my opinion as a “personal attack” is a bit hysterical in my view.

          I am not at all offended Rocket, if an assessment is judged as a Judgment, we have but one more instance of rhetorical gamesmanship.

          I seriously think that you are loosing your way in Rocketizing the ineffable – solid fuel dogmatism built of extraneous complexity.

          It is only one individual’s opinion Rocket, don’t take it so hard.

          If you wish to continue the dialog we may. I don’t want to leave as enemies on this sour note.

          Peace Brother,

          \\][//

        • we are cool hybrid . thank for the olive branch . i must say though you do have a way with words. … ”Rocketizing the ineffable” …. i am gonna steal these sayings and put them in a song . ha !

          i have been told by believers and non believers alike that i need Occam’s razor badly …not to mention better spelling … to which i concur . after all Wittengenstein eventually dropped in to silence , and would have fit nice and neatly into a Trappist monastery with its rule of silence dating back to 1098 A.D.

          but as Proximo said in the movie The Gladiator ”General, i dont doubt your sincerity, but me..well….i am an entertainer”.

    • Now, Hybridrogue, you and Rocket have been having a good conversation for a while then you had to end it with name calling which is not allowed on Dandelion Salad.

      If you have nothing to say, then say nothing, but attacking the writer doesn’t help your case at all.

      This piece is not about the writer. In fact, it is not about proving that the Christ story is real but instead it’s uniqueness. No one has been able to prove otherwise.

      • I apologize to the forum and especially to Rocket,

        I didn’t realize that “Holier than thou” is a four letter word.

        Someone prescient once remarked that: “All writing is autobiographical”. Meaning of course, that to the lucid, an author reveals as much about himself as his subject.

        Forgive my frank nature. I will admit to such openly, you needn’t search for it in the subtext.

        \\][//

  10. It seems to me Rocket, that you wish to use reason to make a rational argument to defend your faith. But then when you reach points in that argument that need to leap beyond reason to hold the point, you are willing to play the “God works in mysterious ways” card.

    It would seem more consistent and honest to simply admit it is your “FAITH” and not reason that sustains your BELIEF.
    In other words Rocket, all the rhetoric seems bullshit, and all you really need is that ‘God works in mysterious ways’…

    I say this because going over everything said here, it looks to me like the technique of a slippery reptile with squamous metaphors, trap doors, and weeping sores.

    \\][//

    • it depends on what kind of reason you are talking about . there are 2 types of reason :
      1. deductive reason
      2. Inspired reason

      i choose the former./ i am not an Augustinian that seeks to reconcile faith and reason deductive . as i have said , i am in the the Tertullain/ Kierkegaard camp that sees reason as eating out ones eyes , and as a whore , and that one must reject man-made constructs of so called objectivity and embrace a subjective journey with Christ in a passionate way .

      i cast doubts upon the machinations in the finite mind fueled by reason as a god , and seek to use knowledge against knowledge to show how futile it is .

      then i offer Christ as the way out .

      • so of course it is faith that sustains my belief. but faith is a response to an epiphany , not something i just made up in my head. read my testimony called ”THE Crossing” on this blog .

        faith not only sustains belief , but it sustains me . Christ as the object of faith sustains my very being at its most in most . so i say to others in regards to matters of faith in Christ ”believe or be offended ”

        so what do most people do ? they seek to dismiss Christ , get angry at the messenger , or put Christ in with the Pantheon where he never belonged nor can fit in . Most people are highly Christophobic , and as G.B.Shaw said ”would rather die than think ”. this i cant tolerate . there is enough mindless bullshit around . so –i call em on it . Bullys need to be called out on the playground to be shown for what they are.

  11. hybrid , in response to you all is illusion , all is ONE . ..july 3 remark :

    the pre-Socratics spent all their time asking what the Urstoff –Substrum of this ONE is . Thales said water , Heracletes said fire. so on and so forth . what do you say ? just out of curiosity .

    • “so on and so forth . what do you say ? just out of curiosity “~Rocket

      All “medium” is illusion as well.

      I imagine you know what a Circle Limit is — aye Rocket?

      We have reached ours. Thanks for the chat.

      \\][//

      • hybrid , i have noticed the trajectory of your comments since coming on this blog as in regards to me . they started off very intelligent , and then slowly got somehow more shall we say snarly . i dont believe in personal attacks . i think ad hominum is very childish . i dont think that you are attacking me , but i wonder why what could have been more of a fruitful dialogue has broken down by your choice .

        but i can just take a guess ….its that one subject over all others that has in it the very thing that when one comes to a place where they refuse to believe , they get offended . of course if this Gospel is not an offense than it is not the real gospel , but mere new age prattle . It sounds to me by the changing tone of your responses that the Offense has started to set in . what follows is an ”offended consciousness”.

        • if one allows their ”offended consciousness ”to continue , one remains blocked from an ”eternal consciousness ”. if this sounds foolish to you then it should . in fact it should sound absurd even madness. for none of us can prove or disprove an historical Jesus , but we can prove an historical Paul . and Paul said ”the gospel to those who are perishing is foolishness , but to us who being saved it is the power of God ”.

          yes my friend i do know what a Circle Limit is : it is the beautific vision of God . and you will never be able to square the circle with your mental facultys . Dante tried it . Aquainis tried it . but you can always come to Christ like a little child and have a new life . that is if you have the humility to.

    • hybrid , it is both . a paradox that really cannot be understood . Trinitarian theology is very complex , but as Jewish scholar at Hebrew university in Israel said ”Christians are not Polytheists , they are odd Monotheists ” . it is an odd form of Monotheism , very odd .

      • “Jewish scholar at Hebrew university in Israel said ”Christians are not Polytheists , they are odd Monotheists ”

        Rocket, I would suggest we skip the “scholar” – “authority” bullshit and stand to reason:

        “odd Monotheists ” is semantics. A common cop-out. There is “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost = 1,2,3, oh that’s how elementary it’s gotta be.. Tritheism.

        Pantheism is a theology – a belief system based on multiple gods, but in each case it is a singular belief system. The Roman Christian theology is a form of pantheism – one belief system based on three gods, it is Tritheism.

        You are seemingly capable of your own reasoning facilities when it serves your purpose Rocket. When “authority” bends reason in such an obvious fashion, it should be called out.

        \\][//

        • hybrid , there are not 3 gods –there is only ONE . the reason why Pinchas Lapide said that that christians were ”Odd Monotheists ” is because he knew that reason in Judaism can just take one so far , and that Christianity is only the Greek derivative from a branch of Judaism called the messianic Judaism of jesus . Messianic Judaism leans more on mystery than logic . hence , odd , monotheistic the same .

          this is why the unity Kierkegaard mentions is between God and the God-Man jesus ..hence thee is not only a mystery in the Godhead ”Let US make man in OUR own image” GENESIS . ..Plural …. but a full restoration of the divine likeness in man over time to bring the human race to Aoptheosis

        • ——divine like first perfecting the divine in the God-MAN Jesus . His humanity being lived out and perfected is the key to full restoration with our the final unative stage with God , but expereincially understanding without logic the mystery of the Godhead above God as Meister Eckheart states.

          what appears as 3 is not 3 but one manifested in 3 ways hence the matrix of the divine -human goal of all earth beings . the redemption of the rest of creation will follow .

          welcome to catholic mystic theology pal .

        • I suppose that if I felt that the rest of creation needed redemption I might be interested in the dogma you term, “catholic mystic theology”.

          I appreciate your efforts, perhaps others have been persuaded.

          \\][//

  12. Pingback: Christophobia is as Bad as Homophobia by Rocket Kirchner (repost) | Dandelion Salad

  13. I also think it is a bogus complaint to use the “Pagan” astrological meme as ‘proofs’ that the Christ story is lifted from other myths and eras.

    If the cosmos is built on this template, would not the Son of Man manifest as a mirror of such?

    is not Truth timeless?

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    • hybrid , very good point made here. truth is timeless, but we must talk about the difference between the truth of what the Greeks call ”Eternal Verities ”, and ”the” Truth that Jesus of Nazareth refers too. Both are Timeless –yes indeed . but the claim of the Christ story is that the Truth-God eternal actually became a man in one point of human history . does this prove it to be true ? NO. does this make it unique ? yes . and in no ways negates the eternal verities , but fulfills them in time-space. we have foreshadowing of this in Greek tragedies in the literary sense , especially the sacrificial death motif in the plays of Euripides . in literature yes , in Mythos .. no.

      the whole notion of the paradox of the God-Man as Soren Kierkegaard points out in his brilliant work ”Philosophical Fragments” is that Reason comes to a stand still in the presence of THE PARADOX .

      • i ran out of space on that last one . where was i? — Reason standing still or attempting to critique the Paradox as Feuerbach tried to do by stating that Christianity is only ”projection ”. this anthropological view was refuted by Kierkegaard by stating that all critique of the Paradox bounces off the Paradox in an echo because reason is dependent on the Paradox , and therefore reason becomes limp in its passivity though it may seem active .

        since the definition of paradox is that which seems to contradict itself but is really true after all , then the notion of the Paradox of the God-Man ..though it cannot be proven to be true thru certain verification principles , can be believed as putting christ as ”the object of faith ” via a subjective passionate process that trumps the passivity of reason standing limp before the Paradox .

      • Reason need not be paralyzed by Paradox.
        As Planck came to realize from a strict Physics point of view:

        “We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.” ~ Max Planck

        Contemplating paradox thoroughly, one may reach the transcendent epiphany that; Paradox divides the whole – there is only One which cannot be divided:

        [1≡∞] Ta Panta Nous (The All Mind)

        Now holding this thought as an idea is one thing, experiencing it is altogether a different prospect. As one who has had this experience, what is often referred to as “seeing the light”, “seeing God”, choose your terms; I can only testify to such. It matters not whether anyone else accepts this.

        I do not speak to this as a “belief”, but as an experience. I do not speak to it as a “personal god”…in the sense of a “Being” in any time/space material sense. Yet I can see it as a form of Christos. Not as one human being as THE son of God, but as a potential for any human who truly seeks with heart and soul can attain.

        \\][//

        • interesting response hybrid . Kierkegaard points out that the gospel is not about the unity between humanity and God that ultimately was attained by the God-Man , but the unity between God and the God-Man . This is THE PARADOX. The reason why REASON cannot penetrate or critique THE PARADOX is because it is dependent upon the Paradox passively dependent in order to even come before it .

          this was Feuerbach’s error in his work ”The Essence of Christianity ”. Kierkegaard does not seek to critique or debate the Feuerbachian premise but rather to ”invert it ”. By inverting it , the projection that F. speaks of becomes an ”acoustic echo ” because Reason bounces off the Paradox.

        • furthermore ….let me say that anyone can attain it , but they must first pass thru the offense of the Paradox of the God-Man . herein lies the rub.

          in regards to Planck, i concur ..right on , on target work in the realm of physics . But we must go back to the Kantian premise of the world of Neuminology and Pheneomology. the former is the Jungian ”Ghost in the machine ”. what Christians and other mystics would call the ”Spirit ”.

          so we concur with Planck and yet , i say that we need to go beyond his work into a mystery that fuses Spirit and Matter –the world of the seen and unseen . The Paradox of the God-Man to kick start off the final inner evolution of the human race.

        • why ? because the the God-Man reached the Unitive Phase to perfection in his humanity with God the Father . with his grace and our choice we can too. Then there will be ”Apotheosis” as we partake of the divine nature .

        • Skip the phase chapters and grok: time is illusion, space is illusion, matter is illusion – All is One.

          This blog is illusion, you are illusion, I am illusion.

          Like is not.

          \\][//

  14. Robert M. Price – Pagan Parallels to Christ – Part 1
    Robert M. Price – Pagan Parallels to Christ – Part 2

    • Vil , i have spent 40 years on this subject. i did not write it without much thought . so , i think you should start to name the pagan parallels. nothing even comes close to the Christ story . Nothing . it is in a category of total uniqueness .

      now if one wants to see a literary corollary between Prometheus Bound and Christ Crucified , then that has some merit . but that is literature and not mythology . for in Hesiod’s Theogony, Prometheus is much different than he is in the play ”Prometheus Bound ”.

      again , i must stress the difference between literature and mythology . both wonderful in their own way . also , i must also stress that the absolute uniqueness of the christ story does not prove it to be true . it only proves it to be historically unique .

      • Hero Cult Parallels
        – mother is royal virgin
        – father is a king
        – unusual conception
        – hero reputed to be son of god
        – attempt to kill hero
        – hero spirited away
        – no details of childhood
        – becomes king
        – he prescribes laws
        – later loss of favor with gods or his subjects
        – meets with mysterious death
        – often at the top of a hill
        – his body is not buried
        – nonetheless has one or more holy sepulchres

        Virgin Birth Parallels
        From Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 21-23.
        “And when we say also that… [Jesus] was produced without sexual union, and that He… was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”

        “…And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Æsculapius.”

        Water to wine
        Dionysos turned water into wine at a wedding—his own,

        Bread & Wine
        An inscription to Mithras reads: “He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation.”

        • Vil , heard it all before . close but no cigar. closeness only works on horseshoes . study the ZEND-AVESTA in Persian mythology and you will find a number of things –first off :
          1. Mythras was born fully formed under a rock , and not like christ was have said to be born at all .
          2. Zoroaster prophecy — ”the SUASUANT” ( SON OF GOD ) will come into Jerusalem to ”crush evil and raise the dead”. name me another myth that talks about that besides the christ story . there is not one .

          your hero cult parallels have problems . running out of space here –check below .

        • 1. Mary was not a royal virgin , but a poor one .
          2. jesus father was not a king but a carpenter.
          3. the unusual conception was more unusual in the christ story because of an alleged visitation of an ARC-ANGEL .
          4 JESUS WAS NOT A HERO BUT REJECTED BY all , AND HE WAS KILLED .
          he never becomes a king of this world . everything from birth to the way he died on a cross was scandal . no honor .
          christ never prescribed any laws. he commanded love and lived it . not law.
          christ body was buried .

          the list is a mile long that christ has no parallel .

        • Parallel is not synonymous with identical.
          Lord Raglans Hero scale represents archetypal patterns.
          The fact that Jesus was rejected too finds its parallel on the Hero scale.

          What does Mithras’ birth have to do with the parallel I cited?
          Nothing.

          Your grasping at straws.

        • By your standard there are no parallels between any religion or mythology.
          There is no hero archetype no category of dying & rising god, no general flood story, founding myth, etc.
          All are unique!

    • i mentioned mithras because you brought him up . one has to spend time on the entire Persian cosmology and sotiorology in order to see what builds up to zorasters prophecy about christ . mythras is a Persian myth .

      i have conceded a certain sameness , and i understand the archetypes , but as world renown Romanian religious scholar Eliade said –there is nothing in mythology that even comes close to the christ story . in literature yes .

      if one finds a few parallels ..fine . but even you admitted to the fact that there is no ”exact copy”. Horseshoes — is not exactitude . that is what copycat is . a good counterfeiter with money can get anything by the cops unless the cop was wise on the subject. to be a copycat is very difficult .

      the whole point of my article is that the christ story is not a copycat from ancient myths . and do you know why this article has so many views and responses in its first printing , and now re-posted ? because it drives people nuts to even consider that this story is unique . there is something about that claim , even though one cannot prove it to be true ..that still threatens people so much .

      now why is that vil ? my guess is that they want jesus to be in the pantheon like everyone else . that is what enraged the romans so much . ..that the early followers of christ said –no to ceasar and the pantheon . as long as he is just one of the gods then he remains no inner threat to the self . for the self is like a pig, it does not die so easily . as long as is not unique .. men and women can sleep easier with their conscious , and keep him at an arms length .

      i can see no other reason why jesus christ enrages humans so .

      • Vil , getting back to Justin Martyr…one of my fav church fathers. what he was attempting to do in his Apologia was to show the pagan world that are hypocrites for loving Socrates and persecuting followers of Christ .

        ”The death of Socrates in Athens was the dress rehearsal to the death of Christ in Jerusalem ”. He said .

        when you consider Justin Martyrs last name given to him , he saw it unique enough to die for . i mean after all …he did not die for his former neon-platonist stand , or his former Stoic life , but for Christ . as a matter of fact — i dont recall too many people going into the arenas to die for Isis , Mithdras , and others. why ? cause they were part of the pantheon . Christ was not .

        • at the time of christ the romans had accumulated 30 thousand gods . the God of the Jews had special exempt status for a number of reasons . the followers of ”Christus” as Tacitus points out did not .

          they were the odd men out . unique indeed.

      • What drives people nuts is the false assertion that the Christ story, and it alone, is unique.
        No religion is an exact copy of another, each have parallels & differences in comparison with one another.

        No scholar makes the claim that the Christ story is an exact copy of ancient myths.

        If Justin Martyr can see the parallels between myths, why can’t you?

        From Justin Martyr, First Apology, chapters 21-23.

        “And when we say also that… [Jesus] was produced without sexual union, and that He… was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter.”

        “…And if we even affirm that He was born of a virgin, accept this in common with what you accept of Perseus. And in that we say that He made whole the lame, the paralytic, and those born blind, we seem to say what is very similar to the deeds said to have been done by Æsculapius.”

        • read my comments on justin martyr above. he was using certain rhetorical devices to show the hypocrisy of the pagan intelligentsia elite in their persecution of Christians .

          Tertullian took an opposite approach ”what does Athens have in common with Jerusalem?”” nothing… according to Tertullian . The the great Roman lawyer went on to upgrade the legal system by stating that if you execute innocent people like the Christians for the sake of their faith , what good is Roman justice .

        • i am in the Tertullian camp in this approach and also in his anti-apologetics when he said ”credo qua absurdum ”. i believe because it is absurd. this was carried on and perfected in the christian philosophy of Soren Kierkegaard .

  15. Jesus is not his name bro. Eternal life doesn’t necessarily mean for a human to experience it, like living forever on earth without aging. Maybe eternal life means it could go on forever like the universe (if we see the nature of it all and use our skills and brains to preserve our species) and be all over the universe. It could be the universe itself.

    In your second paragraph, you say “…if the statement is historically accurate…” well how would you know or be able to confirm it’s accuracy? Shouldn’t the statement be proven to be 100% accurate before pontificating? Then you refer to a legend…a “legend”, which is also not a confirmed accuracy, to attempt to further your point.

    Nice try though.

    • Rock On , Mircia Eliade is the foremost authority on religion from the stone age to the present in his 3 volume set. i quote him in this article . i did not bring up eternal life . ..or the nature of the universe . i simply am ”myth busting ”. i am showing that this christ story is utterly unique. this does not prove it to be true . ..but only unique.

      nice try though . you might do better in actually spending a few decades like i did on this subject and apply yourself to serious study on the subject. the question is weather it is a legend or a myth or true . the question i seek to answer that no one has yet been able to refute is about its uniqueness.

      furthermore , i am not pontificating . i am simply referring to something unique , just as i would the guitar playing of micheal hedges . the subject matter of the notion of uniqueness is interchangeable . this post is meant to challenge people to THINK for a change. i pretty much do that with everything i write.

      • Vilhelmo,

        I think you proved your points, and that many of Rocket’s arguments end up as rhetorical spinning back kicks.

        I enjoyed both ends of the conversation however.

        \\][//

        • ”rhetorical spinning back kicks ” –great name for a song . i think that i will write it ! hahahahahaha !

        • Good, I hope you write that song.

          Look Rocket, I didn’t get angry here, although I can tell you see it that way. It might even be worse to say, rather I have grown bored with the discussion. Like you I have been through all of this countless times.

          I have circled Sol 66 times now. I have rather settled on my own personal theology/epistemology. Like you I have “seen the Light”,
          For me there was no dogma attached. I have found no dogma that is remotely related, other than perhaps a few things from the earliest Taoists. And as you know that was a dogmaless dogma…{grin}

          Again if I hurt your feelings here, I am sorry.

          \\][//

        • well then in the light of this , does not this beg the question as to what dogma is ? does not dogma simply mean to formulate what one thinks . Keven Smith , a very eccentric catholic filmmaker made a movie called ”Dogma ”, to make a point do a revisionist take on dogma itself to be seen as something vital and not shall we say –square ?

          Taoism has its own dogma , even though i like it . and what about E.M.Cioran’s take on the dogma of oneself , and that ”no theology protects its god as we protect ourself”. Cioran , the iconoclastic Atheist goes on to state that we all carry ”Unconscious Dogmas ” . and even if we take away all its fixed points , can we take away from the fixity it proceeds?

          there is more to this than meets the thou doth protest too much about dogma .

  16. Well, I haven’t got time to compose a short comment as you require, and you will not let me write a long one so I shall have to refrain from it. But this has opened my eyes to this website, especially that you think a creationist website should be taken seriously as a source of evidence. It suggests you cannot distinguish solid evidence from garbage, so everything you post is questionable.

    • Hi Mike. This article has nothing to do with “creationism”. Did you read the article?

      I’m sorry you don’t like this piece (reasons not given by you) and I’m sorry you would like to judge all the articles by all the writers on Dandelion Salad by this one piece.

    • Hi Xi Qi.

      This is a discussion-type article and not particularly “religious”. The use of the word “BS” means that you find something objectionable to this article. Please comment on what you find objectionable.

      Dandelion Salad posts on a very wide range of topics and will continue to do so.

      If you don’t want to read this article and possibly learn something new, don’t read it.

      Also, Dandelion Salad has posted many articles and/or videos on Christianity for the last 6 years; so nothing new. As you can see this blog post is a republished one from 2011.

      See: https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/tag/christianity-on-dandelion-salad/

    • XI — this is a repost. we talk about MLK, Ghandi, and many other progressive world figures. why not talk about who influenced them? this is after all — a progressive blog.

  17. What I do know is once I was dead, and now Christ is resurrected in me, in this Life, in this world. while it is called TODAY.

    I fall short of the Perfection of Christ, but as the old saying goes, if at 1st you don’t succeed, try, try again.

    • Hi JG.

      Dandelion Salad posts on a very wide range of topics and will continue to do so.

      If you don’t want to read this article and possibly learn something new, don’t read it.

  18. I was taught that all other religions are a shadow of the Christ story. Just as Judaism mirrored the sacrificial Lamb to come, and the Mayans sacrificed, etc.

    • Sharon , there is a certain truth to that. ..but we must really look deep into the story itself . first off the whole notion according to the pagan and jewish mindset at the time of christ is that crucifixion was not just another way to die , but was considered , as peter rollins states ” outside of the divine order ”. paganism accepted this basic axiom under the rubric of the Roman Empire . The Jews accepted it also , for as the Torah states ”cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree”.

      so , to proclaim this act as any thing significant is crazy . and to go further –to proclaim this act as Paul did –as the way , only way of eternal salvation was considered absolute madness in the eyes of the ancients . that is why Paul said ”to those who are perishing the gospel is foolishness ( madness in the orig Greek ) , but to us who are being saved it is the power of God ”.

      does this prove it to be true ? nope. unique? yes.

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