Chris Hedges: Pope Francis and Bernie Sanders on Imperialism and Capitalism

Pope Francis - Caricature

Image by DonkeyHotey via Flickr

Dandelion Salad

with Chris Hedges

TheRealNews on Sep 24, 2015

Paul Jay asks Chris Hedges if the Pope’s rhetoric on climate change and capitalism is a positive force or a dangerous illusion.

A Progressive Pope or Greenwashing the Vatican?


from the archives:

Pope Francis’ Address to the UN General Assembly + Transcript

Pope Tells World’s Top Arms Dealers to End Arms Trade by David Swanson + Pope Francis’ Speech to Congress + Transcript

Bernie Sanders Again Insists That Saudi Arabia Should Kill More People by David Swanson

Is Bernie Sanders Making A “Political Revolution”? by Todd Chretien

Chris Hedges: Bernie Sanders is Lending Credibility to a Party That is Completely Corporatized, interviewed by Ralph Nader

Richard D. Wolff: I’m Becoming a Fan of Pope Francis: “Capitalism Runs Counter to the Plan of Jesus” + What is Community Wealth Building?

18 thoughts on “Chris Hedges: Pope Francis and Bernie Sanders on Imperialism and Capitalism

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  5. OK, this is helpful, but we’re still missing a trick or ten, depending on the number of dimensions we allow ~ what is really “real?” Many questions.

    It’s worth listening carefully to this conversation, because it is so profoundly insightful in its detail. PJ and CH are both invaluable in their public contributions, but we must remind ourselves their perspicuous, coherent analyses are intelligent inferences, not “de facto” or “ex cathedra” statements (…to throw in some familiar terms, altho’ maybe classical Greek allusions might be even more instructive… like “eudaimonia” perhaps?)

    Reality MUST assert itself, yes! but let’s go deeper into this. We are talking about institutions here ~ Hawken’s, Klein’s, Rifkin’s (and as Fazal Rahman suggests, Commoner’s) “biosphere politics.”

    Whose “power” or reality is actually superior (ie dominant) ~ in the sense of shaping the “real agenda?” The perceptions of liberation theologians? Malachy’s Latino Peter, this humble Hispanic-Italian monk? transvestite colleges of cardinals? a sinister “black pope?” Opus Dei? “sisters of charity?” Vatican Bank? the little girl in a wheelchair? Fiat Autos? the US Judiciary?

    Whatever may be the Great Aeonic Plan ~ & personally, I’m persuaded that Occult Cosmic Forces are indeed implicit in current events going back a century at least ~ I’ll go along with this hybrid Franciscan program, if it gets results….only, what does a “successful” result look like?

    What does “real” change look like in a screaming abyss of abominations? Can we bank on anything practical beyond rhetorical tactics, untranslatable posturing and corporate skulduggery? Where will the Emperors of Capital go to console themselves? Do they just jockey for a better Maltese Knighthood? Another fancy costume?

    What ought they do?

    What WILL they do?

    And to what School of Thought do they “really” profess allegiance anyway? Reformist Zurich, Copenhagen QED or Chicago neo-liberalism? Or none of the above, but some weird pharmaceutically enhanced post-McLuhanesque “emergent interactionism?”

    • David , all the groups you mentioned within the structure of the Church Roman rite are being dealt with one at a time by this Bishop of Rome . the Liberation theology of Pope Francis is not Marxist as in the work of Gustav Gutteriez or Boff , but rather Franciscan in nature as Pope Francis said ”a poor Church for the poor ”. ..this does include international law on the environment as he said in his encyclical .

      i went to Mass yesterday and believe me this is canon law and it is having effects in every local parish , catholic school , etc.. granted it is not ‘ex cathedra’ as in a Council , but it is still having serious effects within the Church and without of all religious and even the Atheists communities .

      . as to what the Pope said after addressing Congress , he spoke on the balcony just after that speech and said ”To all you who dont believe …. wish me well ” … was not just a fanciful statement but a powerful P.S. to his interview with the major Atheist magazine in Rome when he said ”’ Please join us in this mission to help the poor and relieve their suffering ”.

      • Thanks for the response Rocket! Believe me I really do get it, but, always the (reluctant) skeptic, or in English sceptic, actions invariably speak loudest ~ or as the case may be, often prudence rests in non-action, not interfering, Daoist intelligence…I’d say this man has that. We could call it wisdom. Courage, certainly. Time will tell.

        Now you know I’m not a believing churchman; however perhaps you could say I’m a theurgical pluralist, a pragmatic mystic ~ whatever, these are only words. I guess where we find some common ground is in the realm of virtuous intent, metaphysical realism…honesty, integrity. I’m no salvationist, but I do adhere to the possibility of true spiritual vision, genuine understanding in the deepest sense.

        Will the US listen to the message? Hard to say. You’re a pretty thick skinned bunch! Ha ha. I think it may all devolve to a question of scale, whether communities can summon the strength to resist erasure and the indignities of corporate enclosure.

        A good place to start in the USA might be “education” toward self-determination, authentic “rites” of social responsibility. What do you think?

        • David , the trouble with the USA is that Catholics in America see themselves as ”American Catholics ”. that is to say that they use the word America first which defeats the whole purpose of the Church universal . This has always been a problem . it is a miracle that Francis got to speak to Congress. trust me .

          i know people that i thought would receive his message that resisted it , and visa versa… so i am befuddled . People i know personally that would never give the authentic gospel the time of day but are friends of mine .. are now asking real questions because of this new Pope . on the other hand , those who have always touted the need for the Bishop of Rome to be the final arbitrator in matters are resisting him saying he is too political .

          but he is not political .. he is just not their type of political . so i would say ”but he is against abortion , euthanasia , the sex slave trade , he is firing evil Vatican bankers , and pedophiles , etc… and they would agree … then they would say ”But …. then complain that he is speaking out against the death penalty which 2 other Popes did before him. also , speaking out on the environment actually quoting Popes before him , and he himself is a Chemist and a Jesuit .

          i could go on … but you get my point . as Pope Francis said ”My new Encyclical is not a green one but a God one , for we all must hear the cry of the Earth and the Poor ”. Bottom line : nobody reads anymore , they just listen to demagoguery sound bites. so i tell people to read it !

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  8. Anyone who objects to what Pope Francis is saying is either ill informed, greedy, a fundamentalist (secular or religious), or is stuck in Binary thinking. Read Paul Vallely’s book: Pope Francis, The struggle for the soul of Catholicism.

  9. The Catholic Church, like every other establishment institution, understands the role that appearance plays in legitimizing its existence in the minds of the many and in thereby securing the material allegiance of the many to its interests and ends. Nothing is what it appears to be, however. Michel Chossudovsky has just re-posted a piece that first appeared on Global Research in March of 2013, titled:

    “Washington’s Pope”? Who is Pope Francis?: Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio and Argentina’s “Dirty War”

    “JAY: I’m somewhat playing devil’s advocate here, because I’m still a little bit on the fence about how to assess, in the end is this kind of language, rhetoric positive or not. But he sits next to President Obama. President Obama, in a recent article you wrote, should actually be charged with crimes after–.”

    On the assumption that Chossudovsky’s research is substantive, both Jorge Mario Bergoglio and Obama, both have been complicit in crimes . . . against humanity . . .

    • i have recommended Paul Vallelys new book on Pope Francis . in it he calls himslef the ”Prodigal father ”. he knows he made major mistakes in Argentina but has repented of it and has changed . since none of us is without mistakes and sin he does not judge nor should we . DEAL WITH THE PRESENT . this Pope is shifting techtonic plates everywhere . the question is are you gonna be just another finger pointer like Rush Limbaugh and that ilk , or are you gonna join the revolution ?

      p.s. a deeper study of his tenure in Argentina you will understand the right that he did attested to by many as the Bishop of the slums .

  10. Thank ‘God’ for Chris Hedges he is so well informed and works tirelessly for justice and decency. He points out at least half the US budget goes on War

  11. they were too easy on both of them …. imho. And I admire them both so much. Maybe I was looking for more material proof that empire sucks from them … it was a bit heady. I can understand Chris’ “fondness” for the Franciscan Jesuit, I have it myself. But we are facing WWIII … and the time to see what is happening is NOW …

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